Translated
You’re smarter than this.
Hypernet involves 3 groups of people: CCP Games, the Hypernet Creators, and the Hypernet Players. Traditional gambling involves two: The House and The Players.
CCP Games acts as half of The House. They are the ones that create the gambling game. Only, they are sly. They don’t compute the actual odds of The Gamble. They just create the game and create the condition that others will stack the odds in their favor. Their business is to accept Cash and in exchange The Player will get a fake currency. Only it’s not chips, it’s ISK. Like a traditional House, CCP profits by making sure the chips/ISK flies out of The Players hands as quickly as possible. So that they spend more real money to buy more fake chips. That requires setting the odds which they don’t do. Instead they make sure others are incentivized to set those odds.
Enter The Hypernet Creators. They are still The House. When people talk about gambling addictions, people don’t talk about The House. For some reason you keep assuming I am. The Hypernet creators are incentivized to extract as much ISK as possible from The Hypernet Players. Which falls in line with CCP‘s desire as a traditional exploitative House. Yes part of the job of The Hypernet Creators setting these odds involves buying Hypernet nodes, but that doesn’t make them The Player. Its part of CCP making „the other half of the house“ feel „smart“ for computing expected values and watching their ISK climb as they run The Gamble with set odds. It’s not like you — @Distaine — and your friends are busy making Hypernet ISK money from each other. And that ISK doesn’t just magically appear. Instead that ISK comes from…
The Hypernet Player. These are the guys that buy nodes and don’t create the games. These are the ones that can have addiction. They wait for their 2 week paycheck, trade in cash to CCP Games, sell PLEX for fake money (chips, aka ISK), and then go to the lotteries run by the other half of The House and buy tickets. These guys bet lose ISK because The Hypernet Creators are doing their role well. But that necessarily means the average player doesn’t touch Hypernet. So most people don’t play. So where does the majority of ISK come from? That’s right, people with gambling addictions in real life.
@Distaine for what it’s worth I don’t blame you nor your friends for feeling good like you’re „smart business people“ for figuring out the odds and setting The Game up to be sustainable for The House — yourselves for ISK plus CCP Games for real life money. However I can blame you for acting like cigarette companies and playing dumb acting like The Game you sell to The Hypernet Players somehow could only rarely take advantage of its addictive gambling properties.
It’s not like the ISK you make comes from your chums all running the game. Y’all don’t just sit in a closed chat channel making Hypernets to play by yourself. Cigarette companies don’t pump out cigarettes just so The Board can smoke them with other cigarette company executives. You make a chat channel so that when an addict comes, they can click every link and buy up nodes in all the games.
That ISK y’all are proud of earning comes from people who may have real problems.
If you still don’t get it I don’t know what to tell you except to quote Upton Sinclair:
It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.
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You would be apt at recognising trolls…
Despite the longwinded nature of this post you do make two important points that I would like to address. As you will see, these two points are intimately linked. Praying on people with IRL gambling issues, and the sustainability of running hypernets. While there are players who don’t mind to exploit this issue with little to no consideration of the wellbeing of their hypernet participants, that is not in the best interest of most hypernetters due to the IRL implications and the lack of sustainability. There are disheartening cases of individuals participating in a manner which lacks reason due to gambling addiction, but that is not the vast majority and as one of these hypernetters I frequently go out of my way to discourage this type of participation.
Do casinos make their money by stealing the shirt off of people with psychological issues? I think not. They do so through volume and by presenting an interesting and engaging product. I would advise you to simmer down and if you are not interested in hypernets then they are not for you. The hypernet is suffering from a bad image which you are encouraging here. It is an image which is not in line with the reality of the hypernet and does not reflect the vast majority of hypernetters.
Also, in case you haven’t noticed CCP is not a non-profit organisation and uses in-game mechanics, sales and whatever means they deem necessary to make the game more profitable, which is neither here nor there.
CD II
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It is a scam tho
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Again, they are not the common case in number of people. But the amount of ISK they gamble is multiple multiple people’s worth.
Dude have you ever been to Vegas and got told „sorry you look like a gambling addict, you’re not allowed to sit“? 
I’ve been there many times in many different casinos. They’ll gladly let you gamble your life away.
No, it’s an image you all have earned through your hard work being The House.
At least @Xuxe_Xu owns it and doesn’t try to dress up ugly words with some sort of „my dear good sir“ routine you have going on.
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True, No one is disputing this. Mulitple peoples worth when that person is at the very bottom of the revenue stream. We are just saying the amount of isk by percentage is much lower than you implied based on the sales figures that we have. The largest volumes of revenue is not coming from addictive credit card swiping. Those guys are only short term gamblers and account for a small percent of over all revenue.
This is exactly why we are here. To address the truth and answer questions about some of the myths. Its apparent that you have your own beliefs to share but those beliefs are simply not true and Charles is 100% correct. You are perpetuating false ideas based on hearsay and anecdotal assumptions.
I don’t believe you are able to classify your patrons into „addict“ and „non addict“. You’re not a psychologist.
The fact that you’re The House means you have to accept that addicts will patronize your business. You have to come to terms with that and accept it.
There’s ways to engage with criticisms that build credibility. Continuing to say „it’s a minimal problem so we don’t care about the people who do get f*cked by their addiction“ is not doing yourselves any favors, no matter how well intentioned you all are. And everyone here can plainly see it.
I am agreeing with you that gambling addiction is a very serious reality and I know some of them personally. I have the figures and stories directly from lots of those players who have had issues. You dont need to be a psychologist to listen to others when they directly tell me how much they spent and how addiction is an issue for them. We try to provide a better product than Jita local. We do care.
This is really difficult to believe when the post I made spurned you into calling me a liar, and subsequently y’all then tried to weasel your way out of actually meaningfully engage with these common criticisms of Hypernets and instead spending time trying to minimize the numbers, and only after many words are shared are you finally saying “we do care”.
Absolutely nowhere do I see:
- “We run hypernets, here’s the tools we are missing from CCP to help avoid this problem”
- “We have data to identify addicts and we work with them to not do any Hypernets”
- “We have data and let’s share it openly with CSM to propose Hypernet improvements on gambling addiction”
You know… actual meaningful changes that would impact people and meaningfully impact the reputation of Hypernets.
Instead I see:
- "Let’s pay lip service to these criticisms so our bottom line can shoot to the moon
"
And you know what would be really bad?
- “Let’s ‘share’ these concerns just superficially just to make them go away so our reputation AKA bottom line can increase” (A la classical 1960’s CIA psyop style)
- “We identify addicts and do nothing”
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Please read back over what ive written, This must be why you seem so hostile. You can see that I write exactly what you say I didnt. The only information I didnt share was the actual names of the persons. Im not really sure how you reached the conclusions that you have. Lets allow others who are reading to speak.
I have re-read. I can only say: Please read back over what I have written. Perhaps stop assuming hostility when it is instead frustration at your continued ways of saying “I don’t understand you”.
I get you have talked to a few specific individuals about their personal story. That is not what I am talking about. I don’t see you creating “Broadcast 4 Reps” but for “Hypernets Anonymous” instead: it doesn’t exist. Smooth talking a few addicts out of Hypernets could be a start of something bigger but that’s not up to me. I’m more than happy to let my words stand as they are. Up to y’all to actually step up.
100% Charles.
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At a certain point people have to be responsible for their actions. Whether with food, relationships, substances etc there is a certain amount of accountability required. If people have genuine psychological issues and an inability to control themselves Eve is quite honestly the least of their worries. I appreciate your sentiment but these are quite frankly not relevant to that vast majority of players. In your previous post you asked if casinos stop individuals from ruining themselves. No they don’t. Do restaurants force dietetics to refrain from eating harmful food? Do grocery stores enquire into people’s personal life before selling them liquor? This is an absurd argument to try and paint a negative picture that the hypernet is somehow a nefarious entity out to get people who are facing serious psychological hurdles. I would use this energy you are putting into these replies to actually help people or at the very least help to create a constructive environment either in Eve or in IRL.
Doubt.
Don’t you have some miners to bump?
I mean, come on, if you want to spam people with hyperraffles until they block you, knock yourself out. But stop pretending like you provide a community service.
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Why so salty?
Ah, the channel that mass spammed newbies and everyone else with invites several times a day using fresh characters so blocking didn’t work. Didn’t take long for GM’s to shut that practise down.
More terrible takes from you, how surprising.
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