You cannot control range, meaning you lose to scram kiting.
It’s not a good solo pvp ship.
Check range on t2 long range ammo on lasers.
Paper scram kites can’t take the hits… a punisher can.
I’ve had good luck driving these guys off if I hold a straight line profile.
Just an fyi, The punishers effective4 turrets is the equivalent of 3 turrets with a 25% rof bonus…i.e. a rifter.
Lol. Dude.
You can’t track a non webbed target with scorch. You can’t track one up close with multi. You will be webbed and I will not. I have complete freedom to orbit at 500 and win with blasters rockets or autos or to scram kite if you have a nuet.
You’re not flying away from me in a plated punisher without a web. You could do well vs ab disruptor kite fits if you had an mwd but then you’d be even more worthless against ab scram web frigates.
I always carry a neut on a punisher.
If you neut me first, you’ll be ok… but I’ve time with those plates. And I can stop firing if I need to conserve cap.
If I neut you, you’re gone.
If you pull outside neut range, I’ll be able to track you if I run a straight line. 7-8k is bread and butter range in a punisher. And the range between getting neuted and scram kiting is pretty damn tight.
Punisher is a natural mid-range boat. It’s mediocre dps looks ok at that range. Besides, couple your damage loss against me at speed (even webbed) being more than 6k away with my semi-silly tank… I’ve got time to make a few adjustments.
I don’t have to outrun you… if you’re running 1000 and I’m running 500… you will be worse off than orbiting me outside 6k at a 500m/s cruise. I’ll hit you just fine.
Effectively, you’ll be more than 6k from me trying to pass me with a. 500m/s advantage… and that’ll be the slow long leg of the orbit.
I’d have more trouble hitting you if you orbited a jet can.
I’d risk a punisher on that. If you don’t have cap boosters… it’s not an easy kill.
Or cruisers… don’t take one against a cruiser. The poor tracking makes them helpless against cruisers.
Just because a ship or fit can kill some clowns who don’t know any better doesn’t mean it’s good, it just means you fought clowns. No sane person is going to keep range on a laser ship and any decent PVPer who runs in to one and realises it’s brick tanked and would slowly die to it, will just break off and warp away because that’s another advantage of range control.
Err what?
?
Of course they won’t keep range. They’ll hit orbit at 500. Then if they can grab me, I’ll neut them out… if they can’t web
me, they get to fly into my guns as I run away… with perfect tracking.
I’ll run in a straight line while they orbit, webbed or not, while scramming them. The effect of that is that they’ll sit behind me with a very low wngular, even if I’m slower. My tracking will be ok if I run a straight line… despite them wanting to be close.
If you’re flying lasers or nano-boats… this is a pretty standard tactic.
If I manage to neut them out, I will kill them. If they chase me, they will eventually have to attempt to disengage and I’ll have to change maneuvers to continue working on them, but that’s ok.
My position is that most ships are good if you’re willing to think about how they can be flown well. Think paper, rock, scissors
I never understand the argument that “just fly paper and you’ll be fine” or “never fly rock, rock sucks”. There is an engagement profile for every ship where it can win.
The punisher is well enough balanced to be able to fight in the mid-range category which is a strong category in my opinion.
If you assume everyone in PvP knows how to fly well, you will chicken out of nearly every fight. I assume the other guy is a moron if I think there is even a chance I can win.
Regarding fighting cruisers-
The standoff range and poor tracking of the punisher makes it hard to do damage if you have to orbit close to stay under another ship’s guns and somewhat helpless against drones. It’s not a great choice for fighting larger ships for this reason.
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Now you just need to run into a brawler or scramkiter without a web…
In regards to fighting a cruiser : you’ll track just fine.
I don’t think we are going to agree.
It’s ok.
in fw space Punisher is always bait, even when it’s not… except when it’s complete trash
Edit:
I’m sorry are you saying that small acs are missing cruiser sized targets when orbiting at 500m?? Because that’s simply not happening. In fact, small guns of all types LOVE shooting at larger ships. The problem with taking on cruisers is they are capable of 5, 6, 7, 8, 900dps with a reasonable amount of tank exceeding the punisher’s own tank. I love punching up as much as the next guy but you’d need to bring a shitload of punishers to kill a well fit vexor. It wouldn’t be because you were missing them though.
I don’t think I’ve ever flown an aC fit punisher. As anemic as autocannons are these days I don’t see the appeal.
But with lasers, the tracking sucks at 500m orbit, even when you’re orbiting a cruiser. You just can’t project damage well from that close.
Typically though, against a cruiser, it’s a necessity to orbit close to reduce inbound damage. You need to get under their guns… but if you can’t hit effectively at those high angular rates you’re ineffective at the range you must be able to engage at in order to survive the engagement… and because a cruisers drones guarantee them a degree of effectiveness… slow tracking guns makes it very hard to get a relative advantage.
Against frigates, you can pull straightline and force tracking to be good and do ok.
I’ve got a rule about vexors. It’s this: don’t fight a vexor in anything smaller than a vexor. Vexor always has web, scram, and usually neut… and 300 dps minimum of drone dps. No frig or AF will handle that well. Kiting works, but if you get close you’re toast.
Well thats easy.
They go DAKKADAKKADAKKADAKKA
Layzors go fshh
As weapons, I hate them both.
But as decoration, they look great.
I used to love minmatar.
Back when the muzzle flash was bigger than your ship and it was speed and falloff dps for days.
You could go hop for gatecamps and when you found one, you just stand on the gas and spray bullets at the stuff chasing you.
It had all the eloquence if riding an office chair down a flight of stairs shooting an uzi (I think I read that on a meme).
Used to seem so cool.
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You obviously have not spent much time doing frigate pvp.
I made well over billion isk doing almost exclusively solo T1 frigate pvp and collecting loot. Not pirate frig stuff, straight t1.
You’re absolutely wrong about all of the mechanics of the fight.
Turd Ferguson… funny name.
You pressed your button.
No, I didn’t.
Yeah, we’ll, that’s your opinion.
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That’s a mental image i never knew i needed in my life. Thanks for that 
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I hate punishers they are stupid. Their only purpose is to be difficult to destroy and the only counter to them is to destroy them. It’s like no frigate or destroyer can kill them before a gang in an adjacent system can turn up to save them. Any other T1 frigate or dessi the fight isn’t going to last that long. In the short term wow that was clever, in the long term the are an unengageable object blocking sites and I have no shame complaining about them after the way people whimpered about griffins. I recall something about there being no counter to griffins except in the fitting screen, like it is a big deal to have to go fit something.
I love the punisher.
Because it is the easiest way to have an NPC alt your main doesn’t love punishers. It’s always been their crap role back when they used to sit in plexes with 4 stabs before someone had the bright idea of giving them 5 lows. An NCP alt Non character player.
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