I WAS A CODE. SPACE BULLY

Oh look, you don’t understand how individual experience is inadequate for understanding large-scale economies. Theory is all you have.

So now you’re talking about a miner, rather than manufacturer?

Originally I said “industry player”, you’re the one who assumed that meant manufacturing only.

It’s you repeatedly throwing a tantrum because you don’t like people engaging in PvE activity without feeding you kills.

Nope, and this is why you’re an idiot. I want fewer people engaging in industry/market PvP (which is not PvE) to die in combat PvP because more industry players are smart about how they play and use the available tools to protect themselves. I want more people to understand that EVE is a PvP game and play it that way, and fewer people who want a zero-risk AFK farming game where CCP gives them participation trophies and free ISK no matter how stupid they are.

You keep calling them “farmer trash” as if you insulting them makes them bad.

Nope. They’re already bad, labeling them “farmer trash” is simply an accurate description of what they are. They are pathetic whiny failures that need to GTFO and go back to WoW.

Ganking should have a risk element which requires effort and personal skill to mitigate.

How exactly do you make a 50v1 engagement have risk, especially when loss of the 50 ships is already guaranteed as soon as they activate their guns?

Why not? Other capital ships would stand up to 50-1 odds from glass cannon fit subcaps.

And those capital ships are not allowed in highsec. Fair trade though, freighters can have defenses like combat capital ships and be banned from highsec. But something tells me you don’t want this to happen.

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Yep, you’re an idiot. Individual experience is not sufficient because no individual can directly experience more than a tiny percentage of the vast and complex EVE economy.

I’ve highlighted the part that shows you were not talking about miners.

I’d highlight the part where you’re an idiot, but then I’d just be highlighting your entire post. Perhaps you should try to get your head around the concept of players (and corps) doing both mining and manufacturing?

Too bad, it’s a sandbox. Those people have just as much right to be here as you do. If you don’t like it, leave.

Nope. That’s not what “sandbox” means. It simply means that CCP did not create a linear advacenment/story path for how to “win” the game. It does not in any way mean that risk-averse farmer trash is entitled to declare that “no risk is how I want to play the game” and have CCP give them free stuff with no chance of loss.

I’ve given one example already in this thread.

Then perhaps you could post it again and make it clear exactly what idea you are referencing, given that this thread is over 1700 posts long?

That 50 corvettes should be able to take down a battleship for example.

That’s an idiotic argument. Obviously if you carefully craft a scenario where the 50 players are stupid and bring useless ships the 1 player can win. But if the 50 players are smart and bring appropriate ships they are effectively guaranteed to win. There is simply no realistic scenario in EVE where 50 players attack a single player in a competent manner and fail to get a kill.

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Only if you don’t understand the subject you’re trying to discuss. The plural of ‘anecdote’ is not ‘data’, and no single player has access to sufficient experience of the EVE economy to make useful conclusions based on personal experience.

You’re raging out because people enjoy PvE and you don’t want them to do so.

No, I’m angry because farmer trash is trying to break the game by turning it into one of those menial “click lots of times” F2P mobile games. Please stop ignoring the difference between “people who do PvE” and “farmer trash”.

Nah, I’ll let you find it. While you looking you can cool off and perhaps learn to engage in a discussion like an adult.

So, you admit to having nothing to offer here.

People manage to escape from blobs all the time, even when they are competent.

{citation needed}

People may escape by running away before the blob can catch them, but once the blob is on-grid and tackling the target 50 competent players engaging a single enemy is effectively 100% guaranteed victory. Any exceptions to this are extremely rare miracles that should not be accounted for in game design.

In the case of a gank though the gankers don’t even have to be competent. They just have to lock target and hit F1.

Just like any other scenario where 50 players get into tackle range of a target before it can escape. Or do you think it really requires a lot of skill to lock a target and hit F1 in any other case?

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Because it’s the basic mechanics of how industry in EVE works. Production resources are largely interchangeable. The factories are the same, the raw materials are largely the same, etc. And once you understand this interchangeability it’s just economics 101: supply vs. demand. Demand increases and supply decreases, prices go up.

They are just playing the game the way they want to.

No they aren’t. They’re incessantly demanding buffs to farming and nerfs to anything that reduces their ISK per hour or exposes them to any risk of failure.

You’re the one having an aneurysm because people aren’t feeding you easy kills.

Stop lying. I’ve said over and over again that I want fewer easy kills because more players are smart and use the available defensive tools to avoid being easy kills.

TIL that nobody has ever managed to break tackle.

Not when hit by 50 webs and scrams.

So then gankers by your definition are not competent PvPers, they are just hitting F1, so your claim that noone should survive 50-1 against competent PvPers is irrelevant, since they are never competent?

WTF are you going on about? The gankers are competent because they are bringing the appropriate ships and strategies to win.

And again I ask, why are you defending PvP that is so dumbed down it can be multiboxed 20 times over?

Because I understand that it is not possible to change that status without, at minimum, removing CONCORD and completely redesigning how highsec works. As long as the only way to win in highsec is to 20v1 a target before CONCORD can arrive the only form of PvP will be mass blobbing and mass blobbing is always going to be easy to multibox.

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Yep, you’re an idiot. Even assuming the ECM burst has an 80% jam chance you have a 0.0014% chance of jamming all 50 points and escaping. That’s close enough to 100% chance of death that the chance of a miracle is not relevant to balance discussions.

That’s not the only way to win.

It is as long as CONCORD exists in its current form. There is no room for strategy when you have 30 seconds or less to deal fatal damage before your gank fleet is destroyed by CONCORD. You assemble enough suicide ships to do the required damage, press F1, and scoop the loot. If you change the HP or whatever then the gank fleet’s composition may change slightly but the only viable strategy remains exactly the same.

So then do that.

I’d love to. I’m also realistic enough to accept the fact that CCP is not going to make changes on that scale, so there’s no real point in discussing that scenario.

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if it makes you feel good about yourself then feel that you have backed me into a corner by asking a meaningless question. Well done you have won Eve. :joy:

I must say Lucas you are really putting this ridiculous manchild to the sword. Great stuff.

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It’s true, Drac. Most carebears are completely helpless and impotent, like you. :blush:

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Sure tell that to the CODE guy who lost two Catalysts to one of my characters today, or that other ganker who has lost 8 Thrashers to this one and another to one of my alts. Yeah I am impotent and helpless, :joy:

I was so helpless that the CODE player went elsewhere and then logged.

If I recall he bet 40 billion isk that you could not bump his freighter, and as I recall you declined to even try.

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Link their names, or they don’t exist. Some people claim to have an elite PvP main, but Dracvlad claims to have elite PvP alts. :roll_eyes:

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Ok boomer!

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It was irrelevant, and you making a fuss about that changes nothing, and 40bn so little ISK…

I don’t think I have ever claimed to have elite PvP alts or even an elite PvP main, as far as I am concerned I am merely competent. I think you are too lazy to work it out, it is not exactly difficult.

That’s a couple hundred dollars. If you had any confidence of being able to bump his freighter, you would have at least attempted the bet. Clearly, you were afraid that you would not succeed.

You either link your ‘competent’ alts, or they do not exist. You will not be awarded credibility, respect, or social standing based upon a false valour claim to have an alt that doesn’t exist. You either own your alts, or you do not get any credit for them.

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It was irrelevant, just a looney ganker showing off.

Incidentally I don’t update Zkill with any of my characters. :joy:

I post with my main and I use my main…, in the main of course…

So, I finally got an answer for why Aiko is, well, herself, thanks to someone sending me an in-game mail explaining what’s up.

They told me that back in the day CCP considered posting on the forums to be an extension of the gameplay, to a degree, and a lot of posts - especially in Crime & Punishment - would reflect this.

People would really slug it out with each other on the verbal battlefield in a way that seems to have died out these days, and hardcore roleplayers would not break character for anything.

CODE.'s beginnings stem from that time, and individual corporations in the alliance will specify if they want members to RP and to what degree. The corporation Aiko belongs to - The Conference Elite - is one of the groups that falls into the “serious” category, and now that I actually understand what’s going on, I’m far more at ease with her behavior.

So, @Aiko_Danuja. No hard feelings, right? :smile:

You really need to buy a mining permit.

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He’s a coward. Spends years talking about how bumping is so easy and won’t even lay down a measly 40bil to keep me bumped for like 15 mins. Does anyone honestly think he wouldnt take me up on it if he thought he wouldn’t fail? :rofl:

Now he desperately back pedals saying how hard or easy bumping is never mattered lmao

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Never! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

No, I just moved on because the post length was getting too long and your only real argument was “lots of people are too lazy and/or stupid to fully exploit market opportunities”.

So to be clear, there’s a non-zero chance of the person escaping?

Yes, I will concede that approximately once in every 75,000 engagements like this the single player will manage to jam all sources of warp disruption and be able to warp off, assuming they are not otherwise bumped/destroyed first/unable to align fast enough/etc. Could you explain just why you think that a scenario that happens so rarely is worth discussing? And could you please try to grasp the concept of “effectively 100%” as contrasted with “literally 100%”?

I assume “mates hiding in a wormhole” you’d say doesn’t count because it was only pretending to be 50-1.

Yes, it will shock you to know that I do not consider a scenario where 50 ships fight more than one ship to be “50v1”. Are you honestly stupid enough to think that it is a 50v1 fight?

So wars, awoxing, baiting, diplomacy and direct competition do not exist in highsec?

Have you not paid any attention to the events of the past few years? Wars have effectively been removed unless you’re dumb enough to put your freighter in the holding corp for your station, awoxing has effectively been removed unless you are dumb enough to enable friendly fire and put up a giant “please kill me” sign for everyone, and I’m not sure what “baiting” activities you think exist that can get a a freighter to flag itself as a target. As for diplomacy and competition, the question was about destroying a ship in combat, which neither of those accomplish.

And I’m realistic enough to accept that ganking in its current form is unsustainable and needs to be balanced. I imagine like all things the result will be somewhere in the middle.

What exactly is unsustainable about it? The term “unsustainable” implies that some finite resource is being depleted, and I see no such thing. The only thing happening is a bunch of carebear whine threads, usually directly resulting from some idiot flying 10 billion ISK worth of cargo AFK in a cargo expanded freighter right through a popular ganking system, about how unfair it is that PvP exists in a PvP game. And that has been happening since day one of EVE.

Well that is certainly an impressively delusional way of looking at the situation.

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