Fellow Capsuleers and Federation citizens, i will be brief. I see that Khimi Harar plans on putting on a conference to discuss trade relations between the Empire and the Federation. This is an opportunity for Federation loyalists to set terms with the empire. They are interested in something from us that will benefit them, so let us use that. Today, I’m calling on all of you to deny any meaningful trade deals unless the Imperial Capsuleers denounce slavery and choose a path that will advocate and lobby for the Empire to abolish slavery altogether. Slavery is abhorrent and cruel to any who are put under the Amarr yoke and now that Imperial Capsuleers are coming to us, we need to leverage that for the betterment of all people under their boot.
While I understand the call to action and agree with the sentiment, it’s an overreach. The entire Amarr Empire’s economic and social structure is built around the establishment of slavery, holding trade with the Empire as a hostage would require that whatever they have to gain from trade with the Federation would have to be worth restructuring their entire societal and economic system to obtain.
Your call to action should be revised to focusing on making trade with the Federation so appealing that it’s worth the cost of reforms. Failing that, the demand is unlikely to be taken into serious consideration.
Calling for sweeping reforms out the gate instead of working on means to reach this goal is absurd. One should take small steps and work with one another and develop trade in a small way and build up, to allow for a chance of those you wish to sway to see how things are done on the other side. Making such a demand and calling for others to side with you in a major end all be all movement is going to do you more harm than good.
Amarr has made peace with the Federation, Fighting three wars would be too much for any empire to endure. If you want we can make a counter demand of lobbying the Federation with upholding their laws of freedom. Namely the freedom of Caldari Prime to which you hold hostage from the Caldari people. I find it very hypocritical to demand the end of Slavery for an entire Empire, and not freeing your own Caldari slaves you hold on Caldari Prime. The very planet the Federation attacked and destroyed the Shiigeru out of spite and hate.
You pay the Caldari people Reparations on behalf of those innocent lives lost when the Titan fell onto the planet, or back off your demand and request of lobbying for Amarr to end it’s slavery. It is best to not throw stones when your house is made of glass my friend.
This is why we would advise small steps unless you wish all your skeleton’s in your closet to spill upon the floor.
Namely the freedom of Caldari Prime to which you hold hostage from the Caldari people. I find it very hypocritical to demand the end of Slavery for an entire Empire, and not freeing your own Caldari slaves you hold on Caldari Prime. The very planet the Federation attacked and destroyed the Shiigeru out of spite and hate.
Intentional misrepresentation or actual ignorance? The Caldari ‘people’ abandoned Caldari Prime and established the Caldari State centuries ago. The fact that they sometimes use the planet as a rallying cry to stir up the more militant among their number doesn’t change that fact. If you’d like a full recounting of ancient history, I’d be happy to sit and chat with you some time.
The planet, and its population, isn’t being held ‘hostage’ they’re both members of the Federation and the Federation doesn’t practice slavery. I know it’s difficult to fathom but there are actually Caldari peacefully living within the Federation, many on Caldari Prime, who are perfectly content to be citizens of the Federation.
I’ve seen you converse in the Summit, you’re not ignorant enough to believe that a hostile titan sitting at a Federation planet neighboring the Gallente homeworld was anything less than a knife being held to the Federation’s throat to force capitulation to a militant tyrannical power that had seized control in the State, which means you’re intentionally misrepresenting the situation to make a point. Bad form.
You pay the Caldari people Reparations on behalf of those innocent lives lost when the Titan fell onto the planet, or back off your demand and request of lobbying for Amarr to end it’s slavery. It is best to not throw stones when your house is made of glass my friend.
Why would we pay the State reparations for intentionally crashing a titan into a Federation planet and killing Federation citizens?
You say intentional but I was there when the Federation fleets flew in and launched an all out assault on the Titan and the planet to subjugate it in the name of “Freedom.” The people on the planet still huddle in fear as Federation police roam the streets and enforce marshal law upon the people who simply wish to be who they are.
It was left behind to protect the planet, it never attacked anyone without being attacked first. The Caldari are oppressed by your liberty and you can’t even see it. That is why your demands for end to slavery will get you little distance. You should roll back your demand and work from a different angle since we know you will never admit your own crimes.
While I personally do not practice slavery as an Amarr citizen, I do understand the Empire will do as the Empire does. The Lobby demand will only hurt the first attempt of a peaceful trade deal between two entities that were once at a very long war. This is our attempts to make the first move and make the first step to work to a more balanced and unified future that will benefit all. We would not lobby for you to change your empire, simply do not do the same to us. That is the Freedom your Federation stands for right?
The Federation attacked the knife being held at its throat. Write your narrative however you want, it’s a false one. The planet isn’t even under marshal law, it’s a demilitarized zone following an agreement signed by both the State and the Federation granting jurisdiction to the Ishukone Corporation and cooperation for relief and rebuilding in the aftermath. There’s not even racial segregation on the planet.
It attacked the Federation to get where it was in the first place! It didn’t just casually fly there and wave at the Federation Navy as it went along.
We don’t disagree on these points as my first post in this thread should outline quite succinctly.
Ashvet dar’nosh, ven mazaf dar’aya sa’ar aya as the Caldari have always been oppressed by the Demands of the Gallente Federation. You can view history for this and all the Federation had to do was live and let live.
Anyone would attack to rescue their people from an oppressive regime. The Elder fleet did the same after they attacked the Concord HQ to initiate their invasion of Amarr to destroy innocent citizens and objectively, free Matar people. Tis simply perspective as you said and I have seen both sides and feel I know the right one.
As we agree on the topic of the original subject, I still feel my objective request of reparations or freedom of Caldari Prime to be on the same level of someone demanding Amarr end their slavery. As a recommendation would be to adjust the request to be more… slow attacks on Minmatar worlds or the capturing of new slaves. We know there are groups in Amarr that do this, and I feel would be a better ground to stand upon. However it would also be advised to expect a retort to the request, as to what that would be is up for those whom actually wish to discuss the deal to decide.
Considering the situation and climate of the Empires in question, it would be best to view the advantages of this deal for the two, and then work upon a unified request that both sides can accept and agree with. Please, I wish to know what you would suggest given this parameter on the topic in question. Mazaf nahar sa’ar dar’orosh, ven mazafan heth nahar’an dar’orosh.
You know, except the Minmatar under Amarrian oppression you mean.
You are only hurting your case and not looking at the proper picture. You need to scale back as you are likely not going to get any ground barking up the tree you are.
Whats that saying? Shoot for the moon, if you miss, at least you land among the stars
In this case you could shoot for the moon and wind up in the void of a black hole. The saying also have much in the way of desperate hope as even in the void of space, you can never truly be among the stars.
Question. would the Imperial capsuleers even consider meeting in the middle? would they consider what you suggested? Would they fight to wind down slave raids and phasing out slavery instead of cutting it off entirely?
I would like to ask them directly, but here we are
The fact you came out of the gate with such a strong demand, I can understand their desire to avoid you at this time. You border line fanatical with your demands in their eyes and you should tone down and back your demand. Bring forth one that is more palatable and see where it goes.
It did get some attention, but i simply asked for a spot at the conference to be in opposition “to make meaningful headway against slavery”. i was denied and was recommended making a post here, so i came out swinging instead of being more kind to the people who own other people as property.
Your denial was likely due to your very extreme view and likely direct demand an entire Empire change per your whim. In doing so you are sent here to likely test your demand on others and gauge how poorly it would go over in the Conference. As you can see, others have already agreed that your stance is too wild to be properly heard and debated. That would be as I demanding you give up your own lifestyle and stop abusing drugs or enjoying your Exotic Dancers.
Good thing i dont do either of those things then. I find both distasteful, but i dont judge them because it is their choice. But that aside, they arent even remotely comparable. Many Amarrians own people as property, taking away the choices of those enslaved.
Are you sure? It’s been reported that many Exotic dancers are there due to financial struggle and obligations to repay for things your government have enforced upon them. The Federation isn’t squeaky clean and sparkly as you wish to think. Also, one thing to consider, when Empress Jamyl was in power, she allowed slaves to leave of their own accord. Ask yourself why are there still slaves? Namely because many are well cared for, educated, housed, fed and given the chance to become more than simply a rust digger playing in the dirt.
You misunderstand, i said “I” do not partake. I am also under no delusions about the Federation either. They are choosing to play nice with slavers and that is unacceptable. Also, as to the reason there are still slaves, well, you answered that earlier. The Empire still raids the borders of the Republic for “fresh stock”. They then use either technology or addictive chemicals, as well as guards and hounds, from keeping them from escaping
Those are the more… extreme, groups in the Amarr empire. A lot are not enslaving new stock anymore. Those groups are more often frowned upon even by Amarr standards. If you ever paid close attention to the markets, most “Slaves” sold are those who willingly remain and enjoy such a life. Outside of that I can understand why they kept you from the conference, what value would you really bring to such talks about trade other than the constant yelling or demand of slavery ending?