Ice Harvesting 2 for Alphas


(Xenos Monith Maulerant) #1

With Ice Harvesting 2 becoming available to Alphas in December, will ventures be rebalanced to fit Ice Mining Lasers and a give a small bonus to them? I was thinking an appropriate bonus to the venture would be a 3-5% reduction in ice mining laser cycle time per mining frigate level. Your thoughts? @CCP_Larrikin


(Hipqo) #2

Theres a frigate for this, its called endurance.
The venture isnt ment to be overpowered or super specialized, thats where you go for t2 ships.


(Do Little) #3

It makes no sense for CCP to grant the ice mining skill to Alpha characters but deny them the ability to fly any ship that can fit an ice harvester or ice mining laser.

It’s possible they made a mistake and ice mining won’t be part of the package or they may allow the Venture to fit ice mining lasers - it has sufficient CPU and grid.

We’ll need to wait for an announcement or for the change to show up on Singularity - it hasn’t yet.


(Gaius Clabbacus) #4

Fixed your post


(Xenos Monith Maulerant) #5

Even with 2 x T2 ice mining lasers and a 3% reduction in ice mining laser cycle time per mining frigate level, the venture would not even be close to overpowered.

Giving Alphas the ability to mine ice with a venture will allow them to participate in ice mining fleets. I can’t say how many times I have had new alpha pilots in my fleet and they felt left out because we started mining ice after depleting the system of astroid ore. Just giving them the ability to participate is what truly matters here.


(Hipqo) #6

That simply doesnt fit the style of the game, as the venture is a t1 ship, and therefor isnt a specialized ship. Ice harvesting is a specialized activity, hence there are very few ships which can do it effeciently and have direct bonuses for it.
Giving alpha the ability to ice mine in a venture, will also result in endless venture fleets, ripping ice fields away from Omega players, because it litteraly takes about a week to train into a venture, and use it decently. So while you think it will be good for your alphas, it will be very bad for the overall “ice economy”, because of the crazy amount of ice harvesting alphas, that players will create. Not to mention, nobody would use endurance, because the venture is so much cheaper.
The venture is there, to grant entry level to ore and gas harvesting, and its pretty damn good at gas harvesting aswell! Ice mining is specialized mining, which requires t2 technology.

The whole point of an alpha clone, is that they can fight other players, but not really contribute a whole lot to the economy. If you wanna do resource collection, industry or PI (to contribute to the economy) you are gonna have to go omega, to get acces to the good stuff.


(Xenos Monith Maulerant) #7

Lol your argument is actually very hilarious. Fleets of ventures are going to ruin ice mining?


(TheZapper) #8

Hmm… opening up ice mining to alpha’s in any way/shape/form… That doesnt sound good.


(Solonius Rex) #9

No, fleets of ventures flown by free to play characters with excessive mining bonuses will ruin ice mining.

The whole point of a free to play character and a tech 1 ship is that they can still do things that Omega characters can, but at a severely reduced capacity. Thats the whole point of free to play, and the reward of being a subscription-paying player.

Whats more laughable is that you want to give bonuses to these ships.


(Xenos Monith Maulerant) #10

So when it comes to resource gathering, free to play characters can harvest ore and gas in a severely reduced capacity just like omegas but not ice? You said it yourself, the point of a free to play character is to still do things Omegas can but at a severely reduced fashion. If Alphas could only use T1 ice mining lasers, ice harvesting 2, and mining frigate 4 (with a 3% reduction in cycle rime per level), they still wouldn’t even be close to a T1 fitted mining barge or expedition frigate in harvesting efficiency but will still allow them to participate in the activity just like they do in any combat situation.


(Xenos Monith Maulerant) #11

So is gas harvesting and there is only a few ships in the game that are good at it.


(Xenos Monith Maulerant) #12

Actually, about a week total for Alphas to train in this case for mining frigate 4 and ice harvesting 2.

The rate at which they will mine ice will be less money they could earn than most other activities they are able to participate in. I highly doubt that there will be endless fleets of ventures when they could be doing something else more worth while unless they are very dedicated to resource harvesting. In that case, this would entice them to upgrade to Omega once they hit their limit and will want to use better ships, equipment, and skills like others they mine with.


(Solonius Rex) #13

Thats no different than saying “hey, Omegas can use carriers, Alphas should be able to use them too but at a severely reduced fashion”.

The reason why we dont accept this is because all combat ships, carriers and cruisers included, are under the same umbrella, that is, combat. With Ice, ore and gas, they are also all under the same umbrella, that is, resource collection.

Collecting Gas, is great. Its a very active, exciting process. But Mining ore, is just warping to a belt thats already in the overview, warping to it, and then afk mining it until your cargo hold is full. It can be done by anyone with relative ease and safety, anywhere in new eden, with very little effort.

Now, i can swap what i said about mining ore, with mining Ice, and i would not have to change nothing within my sentence structure. Sorry, but we already have ore mining, which already represents everything i said above. We dont need it for ice, which is the same as ore, except better.

You agreed with me. Lets let Alphas do things Omegas can but at a severely reduced fashion. Let them fly ships, but not every ship. Let them mine, but not every type of gatherable resource.


(Solonius Rex) #14

I just have to respond to this as well, because it forgoes the reason why people mine over incursions or mission running.

Yes, its absolutely true that i can make more isk running missions or incursions than i can with mining. But people dont mine because they want to max out their isk/hour. They mine because they want to max out their isk/effort.

And guess what? Mining Ice actually has a considerably higher isk/effort than ore, in hisec.

So, no, argument invalid.


(Xenos Monith Maulerant) #15

LOL Your too funny. That is completely different than from what I am saying. Your making it sound like I’m saying Alphas should be able to use a whole different ship class rather than just being able to participate in an activity that wouldn’t be near as good as an Omega could do. Using another ship class is different than from being able to participate in an activity l.

Is your argument that multi boxing Orca pilots with multiple exhumer alts aren’t going to be able to hoard all the ice in high sec to themselves anymore?


(Xenos Monith Maulerant) #16

Actually, with the skills and equipment that would be available to Alphas at what I suggested, astroid or moon ore mining would be better in most cases unless you want to throw in low and null ice.


(Solonius Rex) #17

I see you quoted only a section of my argument, when the rest address what youve posted here.

What youre saying is that Alphas should be able to mine all the different types of ore, much like the claim that Alphas should be able to use all the different types of ships. The similarity, being that we group ships into a single column of spaceship combat, much like we group all the types of ore harvesting and ore processing into a single column.

But if your argument isnt “lets allow Alphas to do what Omegas can, at a reduced capacity”, then what is it?

Multiboxing orcas and exhumer pilots pay a subscription or plex their accounts and therefore receive the right to do whatever they see fit, including utilizing their accounts to the fullest. I didnt think i would have had to explain the difference between an omega and alpha account to you.


(Solonius Rex) #18

Miner 1 turret modules takes around 40 m3 of ore per 60 seconds, or 240 m3 per 360 seconds. Ice mining laser 1 takes in 1 unit of ice, or 1000 m3 every 360 seconds.

Now, lets take Rich Plagioclase, which is pretty decent with regards to price, and Blue Ice, a very common ice found in hisec. 3000 units of Rich plagioclase is about 1000m3(actually 1050 but lets round down) of ore. The price is almost similar to 1 unit of ice, with Ice actually being considered higher in price.

Even if you factor in the 100% bonus yeild in ventures plus the 5% per level bonus, generously rounding up, thats around 600m3 of ore every 360 seconds.

Compared to the 1k unit of ice.

So, im pretty sure ice mining is more profitable.


(Hipqo) #19

That was my point exactly. If you give ventures ice bonus, you will quickly find the system abused and fleets of free to play ventures, will take income and resources away from paying players.
Which is a safe way of ensuring that paying players will leave.

As it stands right now, the venture is the entry level to gas and ore harvesting, and you wanna give it bonus to ice mining aswell? oO if you wanna specialize in ice mining, you need the endurance or an exhumer.

Alphas arent here to contribute to the industry and economy, they are here to blow stuff up and buy crap from omega players. You cant honestly expect to have it all, when you dont wanna pay money like the rest of us.


(Agondray) #20

ok so if their not being made to gather every ore than why are they being given ice mining according to the post but no ship that can have the ability to ice mine?