Idea: Drain Jita (Or Eve, while we're at it)

(Zanar Skwigelf) #21

The amount of stuff in stockpiles isn’t causing the lack of war, its the amount of “sameness” in the different regions. Diversity of wealth is the key, and has been key in previous wars

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(Caleb Ayrania) #22

SO you think there would be thousands of Machariels cheap, or any other BPC sourced item, if the BPCs were perishable?

The whole point is that say you totally removed usable drops and made them ALL only BPCs, or better yet broken items you used to reverse engineer and then build the modules. Something CCP hinted at in the past, but never got around to itterate on…

In regards to traditional Raw resources, you do not really want those to be perishable, you still need the traditional movement of goods, stockpiles and inter regional trade… What is a problem is that anoms make mineral available in infinite and safe to mine amounts, and there is no difference in any space, regarding availble resources. With a few exceptions, ALL space is near selfsufficient, so no fighing or trades with anyone needed…

(StarterrorPrime) #23

I think be practical as well to increase the number of NPC buy orders in certain trade hubs to stabilize prices for particular categories considering Minmatar space as ab example has significantly lower averages on mineral buy orders and Dodoxie is just a deserted hub. Another solution would be to open up new stargates to and from trade hub to trade hub to spread out the traffic and make hub to hub trade more practical since going from Rens to Amarr or Hek to Jita are Devil’s Runs where im likely to get shot for just carrying a 10/20 frigate BPO. Personally though, I think seeding assets around Jita would help the flow because getting stuck in it, especially during a raid, is horrid!

(March rabbit) #24

I’m sure people will just USE those BPCs and stockpile ships instead. Nothing will realy change

(Derp Durrr) #25

Not sure if that wont change a thing. If every BPC is built out of fear for losing it, we will at least be building a whole lot more, raising the overall material need in the game. What to do with these stockpiles of ships is a different story.

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(Caleb Ayrania) #26

Exactly and hoarding would not be worthwhile, and price would go up on trading the BPCs, and same with copies from Originals. For invention and such. This would sink out a massive ton of overspilling Copies out of the game.

It would also be a way for CCP to experiment with how perishables affect the economy directly, something they really dont have a lot of data on… only from the period based drops.

(March rabbit) #27

Well… Yeah, looking at it this way i see your point. Not sure if BPCs are in such abundance that they are really stockpiled though. But i can imagine that it is true.

(yellow parasol) #28

when you only have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

solving a cultural issue with economics, because all people see is an economic problem, yields nothing constructive. instead it legitimizes the problem and makes sure the greedy, scared low lifes are here to stay until they’ve killed the game. Thanks to CCP who made this happen.

it’s modern nowadays to ignore root causes and instead attempt to fix symptoms. ScheuklappenDenker.

(Derp Durrr) #29

right. thats why I also started this thread

(Caleb Ayrania) #30

Thinking that an economical problem is cultural, is a mistake made in most every game out there. It goes all the way back to even pen and paper roleplaying games…

When you overwhelm the players with wealth and power, there is NO content left. The game is not fun, you outleveled it, and no activity will be entertaining. “Oh another 100 Orcs” cast meteor shower walk away.

These things ARE econome, Ecology and “power distribution/level” based… They are NOT solvable with culture. If reaching end game is easy, and staying there even easier, there is no longevity in the game. You need to restart, or rebalance the “values” in the system. THough adding nominal levels like WoW gets stale really fast… and finishing these updates are usually too easy, and then people leave again.

In EVE the problem is similar, but the USP makes it a slower effect. It takes longer for people to leave, but when they do its for longer, and often for ever. Hence the dwindling playerbase.

(Agondray) #31

this at reduced prices like 50% to clear everything. but we also need to clear peoples hangers, theres people with years of supplies sitting there not on market.

(Krysenth) #32

In other words, an amount that more or less is dynamically determined by market shifts that, if the entire playerbase got behind it, could cause several markets to experience an inflation by several orders of magnitude, thus milking isk from CCP.

For the most part, I’m beginning if this is a poorly disguised “I want better manufacturing margins, but want CCP to do all the work for me” thread. It doesnt help that EVE is probably the premiere example of the saying “if it’s there, players will abuse it.” Moreso if it’s market-related. Margin on something? By the time you even THINK about taking advantage of it, 10 people already have. In short order, margins are going to be in the tenTHs of a percent, not tens. So short of creating arbitrary shortage everywhere in the game, for example, rats stopped dropping loot entirely, didnt drop wrecks, nothing, asteroid belts permanently erode, etc, etc…

(John AO1Bell) #33

As i was reading this, i remembered that we used to have NPC trade caravans in the game. Why can’t they come back and distribute the “excess” to Buy orders in other regions. Content, market volatility, and losses created right there…

(Caleb Ayrania) #34

Why not solve the problem with actual economic design… like removing the low limitation on number of orders and contracts per character, including courier contracts, and make the broker fees, broker percentages and TAX and service in general follow supply and demand, so players would be motivated by profit to move things out themselves…

Asking for NPC intervention or CCP direct intervention will only undermine the games already suffering economy and ecosystem…

(Krysenth) #35

Most solutions that involve variations of “spread out the market” would run into… I guess you could call them societal issues. Jita’s become THE market system for EVE. The rest of the “hubs” are about as popular as a dollar store. That trend provides a substantial amount of resistance that would have to be overcome for any of those solutions to be effective.

(yellow parasol) #36

i don’t know if it’s necessary, though i feel the need to apologize for participating only with fragments. i just don’t have the time to read, think and write about responses. i no way did i just want to drop comments and be done with it. keep it up!

(Caleb Ayrania) #37

Solutions will be as effective as the underlying design. HUBs arise naturally the issue is not whether HUBs should exist, they will never go away, and should not, but the point is how to add options to and incentives to create alternatives.

To anyone that want to get under the skin of the topic, I covered a lot of the parts in the recent episode of TheBlueHorseShoeClub Show, that can be found on eve-guardian.com.

If services of all kinds are not proportionally more expensive in HUBS and thus motivates people to spread out, they WONT. Its fairly simple, supply and demand design are what we are lacking, and CCP have added strain and limitations in all the wrong places, and added infinities in all the wrong places.

(Krysenth) #38

Logistics tend to be one of the other limiting factors. Many alliances tend to have a single “staging” system in order to consolidate where they need to move things in order for them to be sold to their members. Same for making it easier to shift things back to hisec as well.

(John AO1Bell) #39

Yes, that is why I like the Idea of the NPC transports. I don’t want to live near Jita and I don’t love transiting Udeama either but I do. I could pay through the nose for someone else to do it, but i won’t. CCP could make Dodixie, Hek, and Amarr more relevant again and maybe more prices would fluctuate more making a more dynamic market.

(StarterrorPrime) #40

I think another problem is that a lot of people aren’t getting into the distribution and trade industry like they use to because I feel the average attention span of your newer eve player is low, lacking the patience to go into the trade sector. Most want instant gratification in terms of acquiring ISK, even some Haulers want a the easiest shortest Quafe run possible, instead of working for a big payoff. Now what I find a considerable hindrance to distribution is a couple factors, The low security ratings for any decent route from Caldari and Amarr’s central trade hubs, and the absence of an Industrial with a dedicated hold for unassembled subcapital ships because to even get anywhere close to be able to ship even a line of 10 frigates, you need a hauler with numerous cargohold II modules then you become so slow thst you become a sitting duck