Idea for a change in how ice, and maybe asteroids, work. Thoughts?

So I was ice mining in hi-sec the other day, when another player jumped in with a orca and about 3 ker-jillion skiffs. I’m pretty sure it was all the same human being controlling them. This fleet decimated the ice belt in a matter of minutes. As long as they were not botting or whatever, then I have no problems, good for you!

It gave me an idea though, and I wanted to see what people whom are better at Eve, and game design balance issues thought of it.

TL:DR–>What if ice nodes (and possibly asteroids) had infinite amounts of material, but a very limited time availability?<–

For example a single ice node would yield all the ice you can mine, but only spawn for 2-3 hours (or whatever time frame seems fair). This would give small fleets and solo ice miners a chance to compete with the large fleets, without negating the large fleets well-deserved ability to pull in lots of material.

I also submit that it would limit miner bots, by forcing them to move to a new belt often.

Anyway it was just an idea, what doth thou think?

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Actually what really needs to happen i the entire mining system and the way it works need to be completely redone. As a developer, i think its high time for a revamp, and many there is agree, including the lead devs over at the start citizen project. In fact this was one of the thing they really publicly gave crap to ccp about.

The problem is that the base / original code is so wrapped up in the foundation of the game changing many things there would ultimately break it, but i think there are solutions to this and a seemingly more quiet and bigger reason is that ccp just cannot figure out a better way to do it with out breaking eve’s economy.

Any change to mining will have to be in line with its current system, likely stat-related. For example mining the cargo full very quickly, but having a reduced amount of minerals. This could be easily accomplished by simply just increasing the mass of raw ore, which will cause much more flight time in mining and ultimately start in to the effort of a) banning people who use bots to automatically deposit ore, and two, making it more dangerous for miners (who can get caught coming out of warp in a belt at the wrong time (ie a hostile fleet invading).

You could take this concept and simply just make it so that asteroid stays, but replenishes its ore over time. this may help encourage the use of the scanner module.

I personally believe that the system should be changed so that all barge/exhumers etc are gutted from the game, in place for the expidition frig class, and other variances, all capable of warping cloaked.

The reason why i say this is because i believe that mining ships should be agile, fast, and mine full ore very quickly. i believe this should be the case so that people have more incentive to mine in low and null sec via the common “ninja mining tactic”. Granted this could be done by simply making the ship mine extremely fast, it would ultimately break the game in terms of barges and exhumers (and potentially capitals). Thus their removal seems to be better suited.

Stat changes could help make mining much better, but it reverts back to the major problem, that ultimately changing these thing would break the economy, or at the very least has the potential, especially when you take into consideration the hordes of spammed-multiboxers/bots like you witnessed.

In my mind, mining should work like this.

  • Asterioids no longer contain their type in name, and instead are sort into small, medium, and large asteroids.

  • Each size has a set value of ore, for example smalls contain 2500 units, mediums 5k, and larges 10k.

  • Mining full cargo capacity should take place in about 10-15 seconds.

  • Scanning the asteroids with a asteroid scanner should be overhauled and hide or show specific ores and their values broken down in the above. For example lets say your skills are a set value mid (level 3-4) way through training. You should see something in the gui (Graphic user interface) that loots like

  • Veldspar 50%, 1256 units

  • Ochre 25%, 750 units

  • Mercoxit, 25%, 750 units (hidden because of lack of skills).

Then on top of this the asteroid should have capped limits on how much can be mined, lower then the values above.
lastly, the ore should be mine-able by specific ships, and all mining beams should be reworked to have scripts to pull specific ores only, or unscripted pull it all at a higher rate.

This will ultimate cause people to search through asteroids, develop skills, and help make things like the scanners more useful. Ultimately, the faster mining rates mean its easier to acquire the last of the minerals you need to build that one last thing, and move on to doing other stuff. This makes mining more casual friendly (in the aspect that you can spend 10 minutes to mine then log off and go to work) and more complex (in the aspect of planning skills out and planning the bodies you are in that have access to what you specialize in mining, as well as optimizing isk return rates if thats your thing).

It should be noted that i believe there is a fundamental flaw inside of mining, as there is in production of items. I believe that minings over all isk per hour rate should be stablized significantly, to say around 50m an hour base, and 30m minimum base. The reason players multibox i because we are looking for ways to optimize income, because players believe that activity to be inefficient, so when it comes to combating this problem the solution is rather simple, make it more difficult to min/max income via multiboxing. With so many ships mining asteroids that deplete quickly, have simi-unpredictable types of ore, this will significantly impact the income rates of those players making it extremely difficult for them to validate that type of behavior.

Lastly i will state, that i believe ore, ice, and gas should be present in all area’s of eve, and in all belts. Ore specifically should have all of its types in all systems and all parts of space, and ice and gas should be present in all regions in all types. Gas is far to untapped and its truly a unique type of game play that is really seriously prevented because of its current access and availability. (no joke, drug production is serious isk)

I like the idea of mining being more like a treasure hunt, and limited time and unlimited amount sounds good but maybe could be abused by endless venture alpha accounts.

Would be funny to have a WH like anomaly that contained say one massive ice rock, or gas cloud. And you had x amount of time as a free for all but once the WH closed it was done. This would mean you would have to have a very active logistics op to get it out on top of mining it.

I have purposed a concept like this already to a degree. It does not really require a lot of modifications from the current system in terms of its playability but will mix things up a lot.

What i suggested is that asteroids get renamed to (tiny, small, medium, large, extra large asteroid) (instead of veldspar, etc). This will open up room for skills to learnt and used in conjunction to asteroid scanners.

From here the scanners will scan an asteroid, and it will read results, which will include the ore types (veldspar, etc).

Each asterioid will now have a max mined value, so for example a small asteroid will allow you to mine a max of 2000 units from it, however the catch is that the ore inside is actually higher, for example a small might have 1500 veldspar, 500 omber, and 1000 ochre.

from here all mining beams will get script-access to mine the specific types of ore. The end result of all this world is that people will have to fly through the belt and find the ore they want, sort of like an easter egg hunt for the right ore/mins.

the greatest thing about this is it makes min,maxing require more skill, time and energy, and will really combat multiboxing spam (as if you put a bunch of alt on one ore, you cant just mine that one time to the end of time, the asteroid will pop, and pop fast.

last note (the asteroid max mined ore values will be significantly lower then now, which means that asteroid belts themselves will become a thing again.

The robot version of eve that died did it this way.

A miner would load an ore scanner and ore scan charges of specific types.

Undock run the charge follow the arrows, once on ore load the charges to scan the area and see the field and density with accuracy related to skill level.

It was more engaging but you were on the ground not space. Also some ores were liquid that would flow towards the mining point, others were per tile.

Could be applied to belt and belt rocks. It is sort of strange asteroids are uniform material vs multiple materials.

Would be interesting to have one giant ore rock like a mini moon. You blow it up make the asteroid belt then mine it, ore inside is a mixture of ores mined based on charges. Once the asteroids in belt are mined below 30% it disintegrates, meaning youll jave to prioritize ores mined.

Theres a lot they could do. The basis of a light interaction activity should be preserved. My main draw to mining is something to do on the side.

All anoms and belts should be removed from the game. Ore should come from moons, Ice and PI crap from planets. Infinite anything, even if just for a few mins, devalues that item greatly.

Iv considered this, but i think the moon system may of been a mistake, or should be much more difficult to engage in that process (maybe a lot more risk in it, for example very small loads, with high probability rates).

I’ve read this thread and many others like it over the years. Firstly I don’t mine very often these days but have done in the past, I don’t like Eve combat very much and would rather do that in other games but my RL means I get interrupted a lot so that at times being semi-afk suits me. If I couldn’t do that when I want to then I probably wouldn’t play very much at all.

Having said that, being active or interactive with the game should be more rewarding that not being. In general, Eve should reward interactivity, cooperating with others, skill level, effort, knowledge & risk. With that in mind, the current game mechanics & presumed development effort, if it were my shout then I would make the following changes to resource harvesting (also to make it a more interesting activity)…

ORE: Hisec moon mining was a big mistake, can’t realistically remove it but it should be nerfed. I would revamp the survey scanners so they use active nanite charges like the foreman burst. The mining overview tab should only show the presence of roids, u need a scanner to find out what is there, otherwise you can mine an unspecified roid but only find out what it is when it hits your ore hold. Belts should be randomised to contain more ore types and randomised at DT with the possibility of “jackpot” belts on occasion (and complete crap ones). Ore Anoms should be converted to Ore Sites which would require a probe launcher to find and varies as now according to system security but again with the possibility of jackpot/crap. Roid size should vary according to security favouring frigates in hisec. So if you are prepared to scout and look for the best resources you will be rewarded.

ICE: The presence of ice systems makes players lazy. Ice Anoms should be converted to Ice Sites and behave like Gas Sites. They should be randomised in terms of size and content. Again, if you are prepared to scout and look for the best resources you will be rewarded. If you and a group of players organise yourselves to scout & scan then you will be rewarded.

GAS: Huffing already involves a lot of scout/scan which is fine but I would rebalance it in a few ways. Firstly having the types in regions is ok so knowledge of where to scan is important, knowledge is rewarded, box ticked. I would however add a small bonus cloud to each site which has the possibility of other gas types including cytoserocin and fullerite gases. Size and value would vary according to security/risk but with the possible jackpot/crap addition. I do feel that myko/cyto gas is underused, it should be a manufacturing ingredient for implants and/or used as a charge for cloaks.

SALVAGE: Seeing hundreds of wrecks on dscan without the possibility of harvesting the resource is very frustrating. I do BM sites and scan down drones/MTUs/MDs/Ships for salvage but that doesn’t help with abandoned sites. Finding abandoned wrecks shouldn’t be easy however so I would suggest adding another probe type to the Moon Survey Scanner so that from several points in a system you can fire them towards celestials which would build up a map of wrecks (within a certain range of the flight path), if you manage to place the probes correctly it would enable you to warp to the wreck(s). I think that would be fun :slight_smile:

Just my 2p worth.