and how is it? 0.0 is less dangerous then hisec even now - wh is less dangerous then hisec.
hisec is the place when you undock and die for sure.
it is sick how dangerous space hisec is unless you fly some t1 cruiser.
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So you link a video of a presentation on 30 day trial accounts as proof⌠ROFL
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So you obviously didnât watch the 36 minute video in the 10 minutes since I posted it, but youâre already writing it off with some low-effort one sentence comment. Cool.
The video supports my claim. So you have two choices here bud:
- Watch the video and address the points about how getting blown up by another player improves player retention.
- Make your little snarky comments and look incredibly foolish to everyone who takes the time to educate themselves and views the video, and ruin your credibility in this discussion.
Up to you bud!
I watched that video when it came out, it does not say what you think it says. I will spell it out for you.
30 day trial accounts are not what the OP is talking about, he said:
Do I see any mention of 30 day trial players at all in that sentence. You are deflecting bud.
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Looks like youâre going with choice number 2 then.
Do you know what âshifting the goalpostâ means? Cuz youâre doing it now, and itâs bad and makes you look less credible.
The video supports my claim. You just go on back up, and reread slowly. My claim is very explicit.
He said:
You said:
ROFL, what a joke, explicit, vapid more like.
It gets even funnier when you suggest I moved the goal posts, I gave an example of a segment of people who were ganked and left the game. It was an example of a group of people who left the game due to be ganked in such a way. You gave a total answer as in it does not happen at all. Unless your âWrong!â means something obtuseâŚ
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Oh, weâre doing made up quotes now?
I said the following:
âCCP has analyzed the data and disagrees with you. Getting ganked or blown up makes a new player more likely to stay past the initial 30 days.â
You asked for proof. I provided proof. The video does indeed support my claim.
And you havenât been able to argue that it doesnât.
And you still havenât provided your methodology for your made-up âanalysisâ that never took place.
Now youâre flopping like a fish on dry land, haha.
Good job bud, you just ruined any credibility you had in this discussion.
Where does the OP or me say anything about 30 day trial period players, ROFL.
SeriouslyâŚ
In any case 30 day trial accounts do not exist anymore.
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OP said:
CCP has data on this. The fact that getting blown up or ganked makes it more likely for a player to continue with EVE past their initial 30 days is evidence contrary to the claim that getting ganked makes people quit the game. In fact, itâs evidence that getting ganked or blown up makes people more likely to keep playing the game.
Neither you nor OP has any evidence to back up your claims.
I think weâre just about done here. Hereâs a tissue to wipe that egg off your face. 
30 day trial accounts do not exist. And that seems to be your definition of a new player, so I guess you are correct because as they do not exist, they are of course not getting ganked or griefed out of the game, ROFL.
In any case you replied to a different sentence then the one you are now saying that you replied to. I also suggest that with the sentence that you are now saying you replied to still does not mean 30 day trial players, which no longer exist by the way, if you have missed that factâŚ
I know the limitations of my analysis, but you said his statement was entirety wrong, I gave you an example where it was wrong to say wrong, nothing more than that.
Well that was rather amusing.
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Malcanis just keeps getting proven more right everyday.
Also - It probably shouldnât surprise me as much as it does by now when so many show how they donât seem to understand how it is that ccp gets real money from people plexing their account(s). It does not make someone a ârealâ, somehow more worthy âpaying customerâ, if they are paying a sub directly to ccp.
NPE certainly could be vastly improved, but hisec doesnât need to be made even safer.
See here is the problem. You canât just inflate the income in the other spaces. CCP tried that, and we ended up where we are now with an economy on the brink, and drastic intervention required. This is a shared universe game with a shared economy which is in my estimation the single most important aspect of the game that drives activity. Yes, a few casual play just to shoot crosses, but so, so many hours are spent by PvE and industrial players playing to âget aheadâ in the economy and make something of value. For things to be valuable, they have to be in limited supply, and the easy ISK and resources flooding into the game has not been good and forced CCPâs hand this summer to do something, and something significant.
Since a functioning sandbox game also needs some basic risk vs. reward to encourage to players to offer themselves up as content so more dangerous spaces need pay more, that means highsec cannot pay well. At some point, players are going to have to look elsewhere outside of highsec if they want to play with the big toys or earn the big bucks, or they can be satisfied at min/maxing the more modest income options on offer in highsec. There is no real way around this.
That doensât mean highsec canât be entertaining or have interesting things to do. It definitely can and more effort should be spent there to address some of the points you made in the OP. But that canât be just more ISK/h as if that somehow equals fun per hour. Itâs not good for the health of the game, nor does it seem a good long-term strategy to keep people having fun or active.
But really, this isnât a new player issue - you can play in highsec for years without hitting the point where you can even fly capital ships or run level 5s. That game play is quite rightly locked not behind some SP or ISK wall, but behind a risk vs. reward one. The social contract of Eve is that we are all the content in this game, and at some point, you need to leave the free safety of CONCORD behind and make yourself accessible content if you want the bigger rewards. Or not, and stay in the relative safety of highsec and earn less - your choice.
New players can and often do thrive outside of highsec. Paying your sub does not entitle you to the best rewards - this is a competitive game after all. There is no problem with any player, new or old, deciding they prefer to play in the safer, but less rewarding space, forever if they want, but no, they are not entitled to the same rewards when they choose not to expose themselves to risk just because the pay a subscription. If risk vs. reward was tossed out, and highsec was as rewarding as everywhere else, who would ever leave?
As to the OP, +1 to more interesting group content for both new and old players in highsec. +1 to expanding the NPE to better ease new players into the game. And -1 to removing crime from highsec. I wonât bother going over this in detail as this has been addressed well above, but Iâll point out that regardless of your thoughts on what CCP has said about exposure to PvP and new player retention, it is a obvious that a hundred-fold, maybe a thousand-fold more player quit the game without being exploded by another player, than do so after such an interaction. Most new players are bored or confused out of the game, not induced to rage-quit by their first in-game loss to another player.
There is a discussion to be had about the balance and meta around highsec crime, and more generally, highsec PvP, but statistically it happens so rarely to real new players, you really canât cite it as a reason to make your game play easier, and to remove or nerf the game play of other subscribers.
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What a load of â â â â â â â â .
CCP. Read this. Take in whatever you can.
I am with Eve for more than 8 years and OP made some very good points. Interesting group content , engaging short time play is necessary for both veteran and new players alike.
And itâs really sad to see, how some people , even in forums, tend to bring down others or get toxic just by reading something they dont agree with. When apparently OP started this thread in goodwill stating his own reflections about the game.
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Someone on reddit was describing EVE as stagnant too, and what they wrote was in one point, âLack of WISâ or something similar. I agree, EVE would be better with some exploration on foot, facing sleepers maybe, or triglavians, beside flying a spaceship. There would be a room to expand EVE.
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Itâs not exactly good will when half his screed is about removing the last bit of PVP in highsec.
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This is irrelevant hairsplitting and shifting goalposts.
The point, which you have failed to refute, is that CCP analysis showed players who are killed by other players in their first 30 days are more likely to stay beyond their initial 30 days. Back then it meant buying a sub. Youâre free to nag repeatedly âtrial accounts ROFLâ, but until you make a cogent argument about why this invalidates my argument, youâre just shitposting.
Ignoring your drivel about your âresearchâ. Until you post it, it doesnât exist. Also ignoring your straw man. My words are right there on the screen for all to see.
Iâm not sure what you mean by greifers, but ganking and theft are not an exploit of hisec mechanics; the relevant mechanics being written to explicitly allow them, at a cost.
- Lack of meaningful and fun PvE and group PvE content in Highsec compared to other MMOs
To some extent I agree, however PvE content is open to being quickly min-maxed and consequently gamed; constantly producing new PvE content is expensive, both in money and dev time.
- Poor new player tutorials and experience - This has been improving a lot in the last few months.
Totally, the NPE is utter crap, it needs ripping out and starting again; CCP would be wise to actually take on board some of the many suggestions made over the years to improve it.
- Many players, especially the ones playing EVE, bit older bit more mature, have families, jobs, and other things to do. They might have 20~60 minutes to play. They want to have fun and feel good playing the game they love. It is quite hard to have anything done in a short time in EVE.
Again youâre right, many of us only have limited play time and there is a dearth of choice when it comes to a quick bit of Eve; unfortunately such is the nature of the game
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I repeat that 30 day trial period does not exist, he is talking about here and now, stop diverting attention from the subject matter.
It is a very limited sample and only encompass a small part of what are new players, and can not be used to extrapolate results on people who decided to sub. And Alpha playing for greater than 30 days and a new player chosing to go omega is not covered by this sample, it also does not take into account various other factors. So if you are trying to tell me that this covers new players as the OP sees it, then you are barking mad. Oh and trial accounts do not exist now.
My analysis on 13 characters and eventually 60 characters had itâs limitations, but the loss of players to this was real. I am not extrapolating this to anything else unlike you, I am merely saying that your rebuttal to the OP that his suggestion that gankers and griefers make players leave the game is wrong, is wrong. Nothing more than that. You are the one shifting goalposts and shiteposting
Please get better at forum warfare, you are terrible.
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Either explain why this matters at all, or concede the point.
As far as your âstudyâ - laughably terrible and does not merit a response.
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