And make any marduer so easier to gank. Same thing goes for drones.
Thereâs a lot of good information in this thread⌠and some bad information.
Thereâs some highly questionable choices in these fits, but this in particular made my head explode. Pulse paladin with T1 ammo and no Conflag or Scorch? Come on. The whole reason Paladin is amazing is because of Conflag and Scorch. These fits are very outdated.
This is a common fallacy. It doesnât matter if youâre making or buying your ammo. The ammo has a market value; every shot, youâre spending that market value. If making it is profitable, and you think itâs worth your time/bother to make it, then make it. But made ammo isnât free, just like mined minerals arenât free.
Much better fit. The rest of this post about Paladin is good too, and sums up why Paladin is so strong. Itâs my favorite mission boat for sure. I use it for most missions, swapping to cruise Golem (see below) for a select few.
You do you, but the bastion timer isnât a big deal and Marauders will far outperform any other battleship in many missions. If youâre running burners and only blitzing the super fast blitz L4s, then a Marauder is unnecessary, and a Machariel is better. But if youâre clearing the good clear L4s (Damsel, Gone Berserk, Dread Pirate etc) , a Marauder will blow away the competition.
Finally, when people talk about Golem, theyâre generally talking about torpedoes, and ignore the other option: cruise missiles. A cruise golem is the most versatile, easy-button ship for L4s. Selectable damage, infinite range, no tracking, and less need to count volleys as with torpedoes. The Paladin is easy; a cruise Golem is completely braindead. So if youâre missioning while playing on alt(s) or watching TV, seriously consider a cruise Golem.
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Hello,
@Leylunia
Could you link a fit for the Golem please? Maybe a starter one and what to aim for? Thanks
Oh yeah, I shoulda mentioned I meant cruise golem. I wasnât even considering torps tbh.
A Clarification;
Was just catching up on forum tonight after getting back (hospital), and noticed a party misunderstood in part or total, a reply I made to a question you posted. In case the OP did also, I want to be clear.
The fits I posted were never offered as âadviceâ but only intended to provide a context for my answer as otherwise it would have been just words like some are. To explain them if necessary, I prefer to minimize my time in any pocket, and donât consider a pocket âdoneâ until all NPC are dead and the wrecks looted and salvaged. This is why I will first aggro an entire pocket; much quicker for 10-40 ships to come to you then for you to go to each group of them, and tractor them in/etc. I donât fire other than the initial aggro shots until they start crossing 48km circle, the max range of the onboard tractor for me. Depending upon whether itâs a deadspace pocket or not, I might move well away from the entry point if I donât like what I see on local/dscan. Once wrecks start happening only then do i even drop the MTU and go into âbastionâ â shorter time the MTU is deployed the better, as far as I am concerned, due its easy profile for a combat scanner, I view it as âgank baitâ, with an under-tanked/capped pricey boat even, running a distant 2nd place to it. I will do as most do then, and work from smallest to largest boats, usually allowing the BS class as close as they want as itâs often a very handy short tractor range. As soon as the last NPC is dead, the MTU goes back into the garage, and the rest o the cleanup done with the single high-slot tractor and the two salvagers.
As far as crystals, thatâs certainly a personal decision. I prefer T1 crystals for spares though Iâll usually use Imperial Navy Multiâs⌠as was in the reference Paladin fit. I just donât see the sense of pricey spares which likely wonât be needed is all. And of course already mentioned that except for very limited cases I donât shoot beyond multi-range.
With both tracking scripts going, i get 6.91 which is often needed depending upon how âbusyâ and close the aggroâd mass is and so far have not fallen to the lure of gimping my tracking in favor of even more dps by going to a pricier crystal.
Only perhaps half a dozen pockets in all the level 4âs combined are busy enough to require the tank I fit for, and itâs just more convenient for me to have a large omni defense and leave it at that â though when a player does intrude in a mission for whatever reason, the fit of whatever I am piloting is a consideration to me.
Apologize if too wordy; from your question it did not seem to me that you would misunderstand, but another did and I remain unsure about the OP.
Later
Itâs not really. Which ship you choose to fly is a personal choice. Which missions you choose to run is a personal choice. These are personal choices because your gameplay experience will vary significantly depending on your choice. Youâve made a personal choice to sit in the pocket looting and salvaging every single wreck. This particular choice is terribly inefficient, but if thatâs how you enjoy the game, then you do you.
But when it comes to ammo, there is a correct choice, and there is an incorrect choice. Your gameplay experience will not vary whether your ship is shooting purple lasers or pink lasers or magenta lasers. You pick the ammo that will do the job most efficiently. Using navy multifrequency over conflagration is, quite simply, wrong in most situations. Navy MF is good if frigates get too close (although, really, thatâs what drones are for). But in the vast majority of situations, using MF does nothing more than waste time. Conflag is some 30% more DPS over navy MF. Thereâs no reason to throw that DPS away. Every million isk you save by using navy MF is probably costing you 20 million isk in wasted time.
Conflag isnât a spare. Itâs the ammo you use. Itâs the best ammo for Paladin by a mile, unless for some reason youâve let the rats get too close and canât hit them (use navy MF and drones) or theyâre too far away (use scorch).
I didnât misunderstand. You posted bad fits, and now youâre defending your bad fits by explaining how you like to play the game, while ignoring the fact that better fits exist for your preferred playstyle.
Lazy Cruise Golem
4x Cruise Launcher II, Fury Missiles (Precisions are useful for a few missions)
Bastion Module
salvagers, tractors, drone distance things, whatever
2x Target Painter II
1x Missile Guidance Computer, Missile Precision Script
Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
1x Pith C-Type Invul
1x Invul II
500MN cold-gas MWD
3x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
1x Missile Guidance Enhancer II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
I bling one hardener and donât bother with mission specific hardeners. Itâs more tank than necessary; mission specific tech 2 hardeners and a cheaper booster will do just fine if your skills are good.
I would recommend a MJD if youâre in a busy system, as MJD away from the warp-in point is a good way to avoid ganks.
Golem is the Killer of PVE, as for Paladin, I just use an AbaddonâŚ
Iâd say Golem.
If youâre using an Abaddon in place of a Paladin or think that those two ships are anywhere near the same level of performance in PVE then either your skills are terrible, you donât know what youâre talking about or youâve never flown either ship.
There is a reason why people are generally talking about torp fits, because if youâre willing to spend 4b and fly around in a loot pinata that can be alphaâd by 3 tornados you can push the Golem to like 3600 dps if you donât care about resists, which often works for nullsec anoms and select L4s, but polarized torps only shoot 45km with bastion running so they arenât ideal for most circumstances and in my experience in Highsec pve it results in a lot of awkward MWDing or MJDing to reach targets, which ultimately makes me want my Paladin back.
Nullsec Anomalies 100% go for the polarized torp golem. You can just sit there and let the battleships spawn on you while you murder them so fast they donât even have time to send their pirate wives and children back home a text goodbye, but OP didnât ask about nullsec anoms.
Cruise fits arenât really that special when you consider flight time and poor application against smaller targets and I promise you the Paladin fit I listed earlier can clear missions significantly faster than that Cruise Golem, though maybe not with less effort.
You can literally fall asleep missioning with a Golem, leave shield booster running and youâre good until downtime. Paladin is tighter on cap so you donât want to leave repper running forever you will dry up, but with a bit of effort and prioritization of targets (small stuff gets primaried before it has a chance to get under your guns) pulse Paladin is more efficient.
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I canât imagine this worrying to death a bone which only you in the entire world can see, while coming on with the mien of a woke greenpeace lawyer, could possibly address the OPâs question; but doubtless you could invent a way, simply by reinvisioning whatever necessary. Now, I could make a pretty good guess how much it helps â but youâve forced me to suspect that youâd warp that to fit into your very subjectively narrow definition of what constitutes game play also. âŚSo Iâll leave any interpretation there to the OP who doubtless knows his own business as many do.
Now after hijacking the OPâs thread, youâve hijacked my answer to another. Are you that devoid of the basic tools necessary to create your own content?
This exchange (an incredibly loose definition) reminds me of a guy who used to play; he asked me once why I used a Sigil to haul salvage from a mission locale in a minor victory system (since that time I have raised my Trig rep.). I told him that it was relatively cheap to get around a 1000 reps/s out of a passive-shield Sigil, which was more than sufficient to tank the gate guns. His answer was âSigils are supposed to be armor-repped.â He did guess though that I made rigs and there was no cheaper way to get the mats than shoot things; like ore, the mats donât just magically drop into a lap, so heâs one up on you there. They used to call it gun-mining, I donât know if thatâs still the thing.
Crystals. Ok, I will make this solemn vow to you, the next time I am in bastion and single-shot a Cruiser or BC, I will mentally kick myself and cry out âDamn! I could have done that in half a cycle if only I had been using Conflag!â Only later, and in silence will I say to myself âBut wait a minute, there are no half cycles, and Conflag is certainly not twice as goodâŚand what happened to my tracking?â I promise you this. Additionally (yes, thereâs more!) when I next find myself in an online RPG, that I will NOT take a 20-level toon into a 20-25 level area for the gameplay. I just wonât do it. I will instead box a set of six 120 level toons, go into that same 20-level area, and roll over the uncaring NPCs. Now thatâs efficient game-play.
I wonât touch your âprobably costing you 20 million isk in wasted timeâ bit, as I do have some respect for how much that must have hurt pulling it past your hemorrhoids.
OP: Sorry, and for the record, still Paladin. FYI it gets boring now and then steam-rolling NPCs and sometimes one wants to have fun. Level 4s in a non-T3 cruiser is always interesting, I use the one below but am NOT recommending it. There are a couple of pockets it would not survive, but 3/4s of the missions are very doable.
later.
[Enforcer, Transit]
Damage Control II
Missile Guidance Enhancer II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
10MN Afterburner II
Gist C-Type Large Shield Booster
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Thukker Large Cap Battery
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Sisters Core Probe Launcher
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Core Defense Operational Solidifier II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Hobgoblin II x5
Scourge Heavy Missile x2176
Core Scanner Probe I x8
Sisters Core Scanner Probe x8
Why so serious? Heâs right though, If youâre not going to use T2 ammo on a Paladin then you may as well fit up another Rattlesnake like the one you lost a couple of months ago, at least that one had T2 ammo on itâŚ
Or you could split your guns into two groups so youâre not wasting dpsâŚ
Like he said, you do you but you could be doing so much better with T2 ammo.
Serious? Irritated at meaningless distractions, digressions, and basic time-sinks on subjects and opinions which not only do not belong in this thread but really could only be found, and then if one had to search doggedly for a day, in a reddit thread belonging to the united neurotic nit-pickers alliance of obsessive elites, or UNNAOE for short â when sentences begin to run over-long.
If I had ever bothered to consider it before, I would have dismissed the idea of an ad hoc group of ammo-police rising to the forefront of of even a UNNAOE discussion. For the record I have widened the âcynicalâ window on my expectations filter.
Rattlesnake. Yeah an FOB kind of calls for higher-end stuff, cool you caught it, glad you did though. Wish you and whatâs-his-name (donât care enough to scroll back) had been there when I lost it. Maybe you two could have killed the jerk with your super-ammo that showed up when the FOB was down to about 30% and seemingly triggered a second response on top of the first one which was already being tanked, at least they occurred in the same minute. 'Snake weathers a single response fine, but both of them combined were too much.
I donât really get the fixation; the very specificness of it I mean. If it was of a more âgeneralâ or all-around kind of behavior fundamental to your personalities then it would have included what is and what is not your business, and wouldnât have bothered. But it didnât, it instead seems centered on what ammo other players may or not use, and apparently when also. A year or so ago Marauders were nearly closer to half of what they are now, and were fine then. Now almost twice the boat they were and the update obviously included spurs for the jackboots of the ammo-cops, which leads to the question of why would anybody if in their right minds even care enough to bother to log in, just tot type ââŚyou do youâ? âŚâIt beggars beliefâ has now been adequately defined for me, so thanks for that.
âIf you had to choose between a paladin or a golemâŚâ has been trashed enough by my measure. If you want to continue why not begin a thread on âPower Creep, itâs causes, abuses, and harm to game viabilityâ, I wonât promise to participate but I know I would follow it with interest. If you feel itâs necessary to continue this mess, just email me in game, this is my main and I still log on up to several times a week to update PI. No way this kind of stuff belongs in a forum as there is always the possibility it could give a newcomer the idea it means something, warping young minds, etc.
later
OP asked about golem vs paladin, the fit you provided was a bit obsolete; we are trying to explain why we wouldnât recommend doing what you are doing with the T1 ammo to both yourself and the OP, sorry if you find that offensive.
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A common theme I quickly saw in skimming this thread is that all the ships do quite well for Lv 4 missions. I personally use the golem because of the ammo choices. It hits like a truck and applies well to every NPC in the missions. I like guaranteed hits on my targets and missiles in general. I am launching literally the next thing down to a nuke in EVE in my RP bubble.
I am a Cadari Citizen, so it is a big factor on why I use the golem also.
Ok, I believe this was the line that opened the door: âHereâs how the boats were (Paladin still) fit if you are curious, as thatâs likely germane to the answer. A different approach would have maybe changed things.â âŚand then I listed the Fits. The Paladin had faction and not T2, and I can see now how that would be offensive to a dedicated forum warrior. The other 3 existing now only in Pyfa which a reader would have known, since I had already mentioned having passed them on, would have only what I had plugged in while building them. Ammo, including drones, changes with the NPC involved, and the specifics are inconsequential in a generic reference posting, especially when it has been previously proclaimed as such.
As far as obsolete, itâs not like missions have been upgraded ever, and at that it can take a significant amount of cap and resists both to simultaneously tank, shoot, and salvage a pocket aggroâd as a close-in mass. I am curious now that it comes up, after youâve done it for a few years in like vein just what your fit would look like. Seriously. Iâd expect nearly the same but for T2 crystals.
You mentioned earlier splitting beams to separate target assignments. I would love to do that even if I had to go to a higher tier crystal, but time constraints. With skills a T2 salvage module very often completes in a single cycle, same with the guns on the bulk of the targets. BS class boats take more cycles to kill, then there are fewer of them, but that just gives time for more attention to salvaging. I know the quickest way I can get salvage to the factory solo, and usually itâs as I just said. Iâd prefer quite frankly to zip in, blast them all where they sit from a convenient range, and come back in the Noctis and go to town. But that takes longer most though not all the time, and wrecks often disappear far sooner than they should which does not work in the Noctis option favor. It was a reasonable suggestion though and I know a player with a smaller missile boat who often does sites in just that manner.
Offensive. Think I already covered what I found offensive about it all with that with a âwall ofâŚâ.
OP: If you go Paladin, it helps I believe, to set your repper on âNo auto repeatâ, as one cycle is sufficient to bring up close to 30% armor (if fit like mine with my skills, I cannot say as to yours). Point is that thing does eat cap and a distraction from real world at the wrong time can drain you dry in a short time. Also while all the boots in eve will never convince me one would need more than faction crystals for multifrequency pve ranges I have used T2 often the very long range crystals to help make up for the loss in dps and think they are great.
later
I personally use the hawk for lvl 4âs and its amazing.
Generally would go with Golem for selectable damage plus not gankable when fit with right officer tank.
You could at least try to hide that you are a troll.
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Please no threats. Keep it civil.
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