Illogical research cost

[Oscar_Class]

i think its a bug. bacuse i cant explain with any logic. today i was working on my Blueprints for prepration for produce t3s. I already buy all subsystem compentents bluprints and bring them to perimeter tranquilty research labs (i know this is expensive but its quick) I start give orders but i am schocked after see a over 129 million research cost. this blue prints only cost 10 million. and research takes only 1 day 3 hour and other sametype subsytem blueprints only cost 333.000 isk to 2.5 million… Any body explain my why same type subsytem bp one cost 129 million? also it show in my wallet as
here screenshots. I also demand my 129 million credit back.
by the way sory for picture i cant find way for hide with spoilers
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[Mkikaden_Tiragen]

That part where you said ‘I know it’s expensive but it’s quick’? Yeah, lots of people are doing research there, which increased the system index, which makes everything even more expensive. Mouse over the Start button to see the details of the cost multiplier for being in Perimeter.

Get away from Jita and the prices drop significantly. You can see the indexes by activity type here:
Fuzzworks System Cost Index lookup tool

Edit to add: if the calculation looks funny when you select it - file a bug report. Posting here won’t get you a reimbursement if the individual blueprint is genuinely wonky.

[Oscar_Class]

@Oscar_Class

dy buy all subsystem compentents bluprints and

what kind of logic you have? I am not talking about system cost index. I am not talking about Peremiter research center facility tax. I am talking about great imblance between same type same group same price tagged Bluprints.
So You dont get it. Maybe never able to get it who know. I give much simple sample. You have two light drone blueprint. one belong Gallente a Hobgoblin BP. other Belong Caldari a Hornet BP. now for you. Hornet BP research 100x expensive than Hobgoblin.
Now do you get it?

edit to add. Now i read your add. I already send bug report. thanks anyway.

[Mkikaden_Tiragen]

The price of research isn’t tied to the BPO purchase price, though. Those are completely unrelated.

Research Cost on EVE Uni wiki

Job cost = Process time value × System cost index × Structure bonus
where Process Time Value is a number derived from the material cost of producing the item, blueprint rank and blueprint research level (ME and TE handled separately) and the system cost index is a number derived from the ammount of work done in that system.

The more expensive an item is to produce, the more expensive the research. That calculation is on a per-item basis - two BPO with the same NPC purchase price will have different production (and thus research) costs due to requiring different material inputs.

[Oscar_Class]

@Mkikaden_Tiragen

BPO purchase price, though

plz dont write here. I think you have problems with understanding basic things…Or you are trolling me. i already explain to you. these blue prints not only cost same. also at same group same lvl. similar purpose too. diffirence is nearly 100x.

[Mkikaden_Tiragen]

The BPO purchase price is meaningless when it comes to research.

The cause of the difference in research cost is that the Neurovisual BPO requires a hecking expensive acid to manufacture (over 26m isk at 0 ME in The Forge region prices) and that production material cost impacts the research cost.

[Oscar_Class]

I inspect with other BP like ships like mobile depots… Lmao you are right. They bind material cost with research cost. So Now I am asking Why they dont asking mats for research instead of asking ISK? Like Covert ops cloaking device BP?

Now i am asking how a developer thinks this calculation is a good idea. Because in our real life we know unit price tag isnt connected with research price tag. I want to give sample from auto industry. a Exotic car like Lambo maybe much more expensive but companies spend much more money for develop inexpensive cars. Research cost mainly about how project complex. Yes Doing cheaper cars need more expensive research than exotic cars in real life… Exotic cars every parts is much more expensive than normal cars…

this system really so illogical… if research need mats. Why they dont ask mats when we start research? like produce item? i think this is another layz short cut development choice…

[Mkikaden_Tiragen]

There’s a difference between new product invention and development (the real-world research you are referring to) and existing product manufacturing efficiency research (the in-game research you are performing). If you want a real-world comparison, consider assembly line development. In order to refine an object’s manufacturing plans for efficiency in time or materials needed, you have to actually produce some of the item components over and over to see where there is wasted material left over (material efficiency), or opportunities to speed up the process by reorganizing or combining steps in the manufacture process (time efficiency). It costs material resources on top of paying salaries and utilities. In-game efficiency research has the same production-cost relationships, and the system cost index reflects local labor/utility costs due to higher or lower demand on those NPC resources.

Instead of forcing you to burn materials, which would make the process more complicated from a code perspective, the game simplifies it by converting the manufacturing cost into an isk value based on mineral value of the components. It’s not perfect, but it keeps already expensive items from becoming even more costly due to limited supply having to cover even more demand.

[Oscar_Class]

I dont agree with this. In real life material cost in any research is nearly negligible. you cant scale items with their material costs. Especially high tech items like cpu, optics, or robotics. Main cost is always at design era. People use similations. If we are in eve. if we are in future. People forgot use computer simulations? By the way why a computer code writer ignore this reailty? Come on. I am talking about commonsense. If you are right. Why BP cost not bounded with mats? I can totaly agree on spending when we invent tech 2 blue print. Why Developers againts same technique at time/material cost research? I am happly buying datacores when I need invent tech 2. I think this is good way boost Exploration income… If devs add new kind of stuff like datacores to data sites. ISK go to players instead of sink to CCP. This is more realistic. Much better way.

[Mkikaden_Tiragen]

It is a deliberate ISK sink - and in the grand scheme of things, the smallest of the significant ISK sinks in the game - take a look at the just-published August economic report.

It is genuinely better for the game economy to have this cost pass to NPC hands as an ISK sink, given the massive ISK faucets present in the game. If you just had to buy the materials and lose them to the process, you individually would be out ISK, but the amount in circulation would not have significantly changed.

[Oscar_Class]

@Mkikaden_Tiragen

It is genuinely better for the game economy to have this cost pass to NPC hands as an ISK sink, given the massive ISK faucets present in the game. If you just had to buy the materials and lose them to the process, you individually would be out ISK, but the amount in circulation would not have significantly changed.

I disagree with you. Do you know how hard earn isk for new bros? Exploration is shine at this era. Adding more isk for them really good alternative. If you want isk sink? go to blue donut and stop botting… Or start blackout again… Not from industiral players. We already underpressure too much. Trig invasion is very badly designed feature. I am not againts seperate markets but not with this kind. Jita still king. Rens Hek still dead. CCP just boost sell prizes at amarr but lowered buy prizes. Many industrial player like me still stick with jita. because amarr now highly unblanced because of low market volume.

So apart from other classes. Indistrial players too needy. Blueprints… structure… skill needs… also need alots of isk for mat stocks also need expensive industrial ships like freighters… Market already not stable. and you add more pressure with more isk sink and trig invasions and stupit Quantum cores?
what next? Game already have alots of badly desing choice… CCP 'new ideas always layzly added. They dont really work on new things. But CPP never want adding life quailty Interface options like button for “auto relist price to top of the list”
CCP hates us… CCP just loves bots at blue donuts… So they want sink ISK but dont want touch multiboxing…

[Do_Little]

The formula for calculating the research cost is the same for everyone - it’s a level playing field. There are systems in Eve where the system cost index for research is extremely high over 16% in Perimeter and places where it is very low 0.1% where I do my research. This is deliberate - CCP does not want all industry concentrated in The Forge.

By doing your research in Perimeter you are paying 160 times as much for job cost as I would be for the same blueprint. Is the convenience worth that much?

[Mkikaden_Tiragen]

Having the sink as ISK instead of manufactured resources actually helps newbros, because it keeps material prices down and research achievable for any player. If you had to acquire the materials, instead of ISK, you are forcing more base material production - increasing demand for already expensive items. Look at the acid from your referenced BPO - if you an everyone else just wanting to research that BPO had to buy the Acid, instead of funnel pure ISK into the cost, the demand for Acid instantly increases, which leads to increased prices on the item, and further increased final product costs. Sure, the miner sucking up gas or ice or whatever it takes to produce the acid is making more ISK, but that’s not going to be a newbro - it will probably be that same blue donut you are complaining about, getting rich while industry becomes even more expensive to get into.

Leaving it as a pure ISK cost avoids this additional demand on general manufacturing resources, and actually takes ISK out of the game instead of recycling it through player wallet after player wallet along the Acid production chain.

[Oscar_Class]

time is money. if research cost millions you can consider to go few jums if 100 millions and more you can go 10+ jump. And yes everything goes around jita this isnt good thing. but if CCP againts jita… adding more production and research taxes prevent jita? really? be honest… Why CCP dont change jita region taxes and broker fees if they dont want jita as megahub? this is too easy way for finish jita.

[Oscar_Class]

again you are wrong. If newbro gain more. able spend more. and when he willnt afraid lost his ship too much. he can be more brave for entering fights. More fun for everbody. better economy. You think like IMF hoarders. But we know their politics nothing more than epic fail. Look Greece :D. If anybody support this kind politics like stop giving money to people. your economy collapse. Look USA their taxes low and goverment support people both for production and spending. Why USA system is dominated EU. Even germany whic endustrial giant need USA economy for stay alive. Dont forget you can produce but if no one buy you will bankrupt anyway. So Newbros must earn more spend more for healty eve economy and future. But if you only focus speculate your flex prizes and use your developer powers for leverage plex without touching plex this will have very very bad side effects whic atm currently occur.