Industry Questions

(Sade Saldana) #1

I’ve done a fair few things in game, been to/lived in every type of space and decided that whilst I don’t mind a bit of casual PVP that I prefer to make things and so eventually joined a high sec corp where I could do that. My theory then, and mainly now is to be in a core and base myself near Jita as generally (not all the time of course) the cheapest manufacturing items can be found there. I appreciate that this theory is probably flawed and certainly is limiting.

I think that it maybe my lack of understanding of Industry in general that is limiting me, but currently I have 2 trains of thought.

1: Jita seems to have for sale all the advanced components and items for T2 production and generally at the cheapest prices, if you are stuck out in null and need those items you need to either find someone locally who may have some of the items or pay for expensive JF services to bring the items to you.

2: The markets are more limiting outside the top 2 trade hubs, often when I log in and it says there is about 20k users online I often see 1800+ people in Jita, ok, not all of those are there buying but regardless that is a sizeable percentage of the online player base in 1 system.

I guess this is a long winded way of trying to find out what the advantages are for an industrialist away from the easy market (both selling and buying) that high sec offers.

(Niriam DoT) #2

It’s perfectly possible to build t2 near Jita from mats bought in Jita and sell those in Jita, but the turnover will have to be quite high if you want to make a living from it

(Sade Saldana) #3

Whilst that is a part of my question, mainly it is how do people far away from highsec/other trade hubs/Jita get ahold of all the different materials needed for T2 production? there are so many aspects and bits needed for the simplest of items… is it simply get in with a corp that makes those items?

And then after that consideration where do you sell your stuff, null sec peeps already tend to have market areas but they dont see the volume of trade that a trade hub does, so whilst you may make more isk per item, you sell 5 times as slow

(Niriam DoT) #4

Unfortunately that’s not my area of expertise - only ever built T2 in highsec.
Now I have logistic difficulties of my own , but those are much more fun than running JFs to null )

(Mac-Gregor) #5

Look for system with low system cost index and taxes. While prices and % there seams to be low it can hurt your isk/h much.

Traders. You produce and sell at hub for fast isk from huge volume and others use that opportunity. Know your buyer and people tend to pay more if they don’t need to haul stuff on their own.

(Sade Saldana) #6

OK, i think I need to find a way to reword my question as I don’t think it has come across properly.

(Zoltan Irvam) #7

Hi,

the only reason to produce T2 stuff far away from your market would be that you have access to moon goo, ore and PI and build the T2 fully integrated in Null. In that case the gains are probably great enough to pay for your own JF logistics.

Zoltan

(Sade Saldana) #8

that sounds fair, I dont think that my character get generate enough, or disrupt the market enough to make a difference there, so I guess that answers that question

(Tipa Riot) #9

Jita is the best place to be for easy ISK. Recommend staging in Perimeter.

When I was running my industry business I was buying in Jita, producing a few jumps out in public facilities, and selling in Jita most of the time, some stuff in Amarr and Dodixie.

Made mad ISK with capital and Upwell stuff.

(Sade Saldana) #10

Interesting @Tipa_Riot I was under the impression that most capital parts would be made out in null/low sec itself rather than being bought in Jita and shipped due to the M3 of the items.

(Tipa Riot) #11

For Delve this may be correct, but a lot of null is still importing from Jita/Amarr. Also lowsec uses capitals. The profits are not that good anymore than 1-2 years ago, but you still can find good margins.

1 Like
(Annie Summers) #12

If I understand your question right you’re missing a big chunk of what goes into T2.
Components aren’t bought off the market but are produced as well.

Moongoo -> reactions -> components + T1 item (made from minerals) -> T2 Item

As you can only run reactions in 0.4 space or lower it needs to be imported to Jita.

So you probably already see why you want to be out in null instead of high sec.
I import moongoo I can’t source locally and run my own reactions. Profit is made here.
I build my own components and T1 stuff from local ore and my own reactions. More profit is made here.
I build T2 items. Even more profit is made.
I either sell locally or export to jita. Some profit is lost here if I’m exporting.

When everything is said and done even with the hauling fees I’m well below the price anyone would be able to build for in high sec. Especially if you consider the bonuses I get in null sec are better than low sec which are better than in high sec.

(Tipa Riot) #13

Vertical integration may boost profits … but also may reduce profits, because intermediate products can be sold for more or only little less than the next step.

For example when I was producing T2 haw guns, I did the T1 plus the 2 components with highest profit contribution. Then there was a time where T1 spiked in price, so it was more profitable to just sell the T1 for a while.

Jita market has the benefit of you having complete freedom, often stuff is overpriced there, and can be manipulated. Nullsec alliances usually request some fair play and selling locally.

I make my living in EvE with unfair pricing nowadays, this would get me kicked from goons immediately. :wink:

(Annie Summers) #14

At scale it’s not worth looking too much into it. Of course I buy certain composites if they’re below what I could react at but since I have a certain set of items I produce I can stock up on down swings.
Like I know I need ~300k platinum weekly so if it’s low I just stock up for a few weeks.

If you’re switching items around a lot and can’t keep a lot of stock (cause you might not need it for your next batch) I can see how being a bit more flexible makes sense.
I personally just operate on keeping my lines running as much as possible. I can always unload composites if I start getting too much and still make a profit on them.

The downside of being in Delve is that T1 is rarely worth it since it costs the same to export T2 HAWs as T1 for example.
Dropping T2 in favor of selling T1 doesn’t make much sense if both are reasonably profitable. It suggest you should get some more slots and build both at that point.

Goons will also not kick you for “unfair pricing”. It’s only when you start relisting doctrine stuff you might get in trouble with finance. But that generally solves itself since you’ll probably be relisting above production cost which means people will undercut you again and you’ll end up having to export it all.

(Tipa Riot) #15

Yeah, different strategies. I used to produce adhoc into price spikes, so switching to whatever makes the most profit.

The good times are when patches bring new stuff in need, like the T2 capital mods (~300 Rorquals got a T2 core from me), structures and modules, and the new named meta mods. Some large and capital rigs are also going well. The moon goo change was also a nice time, made 500M per day with reactions and 10 slots for two weeks.

(Sade Saldana) #16

Interesting exchnage of info, I get the feeling I am very much “doing it wrong” lol.

(Ach Aya) #17

I’ll split my comment into 2 parts.

  1. Why go into null/wh/low anyway?
    One of the advantages in those locations are the multiplier effects of structure Rigs. For example: Standup M-Set Advanced Component Manufacturing Material Efficiency II This reduces your materials by 2.4% (AttributeEngRigMatBonus). But there is another factor: The Modifiers. In this case there are 4 (HiSecModifier: 1, LowSecModifier: 1.9, NullSecModifier: 2.1). What that means: In Highsec you have a Bonus of 2.4 * 1 = 2.4%. In Low you have 2.4 * 1.9 = 4.56% and in Null/WH you have 2.4 * 2.1 = 5,04%. So producing in low will get you a good 2% advantage against any highsec competitor, because you need less input materials than someone in highsec. When building a T1 small Laser this will not be a lot, except when you build a lot of lasers. But if you build big things that take a long time and a lot of input materials, this bonus can get your price down by a good amount of isk. The other reasons like Reactions was also mentioned in this thread, so i’ll not get into this.
  2. How to get your stuff out/in?
    Now that is the second thing. Of course you will try to reduce the transports to a minimum. And the stuff you have to ship, you can go with JF or T2 industrials (depending what you need to transport).
    For example: If you need Minerals: Best way is to buy compressed ores because of their size. Of course this means you need your own pretty high reprocessing skills (and again: rig bonus!) and get a lot out of that ores. Or of course you have a good cheap source of ore at the location you are.

Just for disclaimer: I’m not doing low/null/wh myself but i heard the above over the month i played eve on many different YT Vids from people who do produce in large scales in low/null.

One reason i coulnd’t do it: You need a lot of isk (and guess time) to do it the right way. When you go shopping: You will pay a lot, since you but a good amount of stock. I don’t know if people do this, but a JF full with compressed ore is quite a lot of isk.
Besides this need for a chunk of isk to invest, you need to keep your stations running and of course have them defended. So setting yourself up is nothing done in 1 hour or so.

Of course If i’m wrong somewhere pls correct me. That’s just how i personally see this topic.

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(Sade Saldana) #18

unless selling locally in null then i feel that most, if not all your advantage for using less materials is wiped out with the JF costs, i personally cannot fly a JF so would then have to rely on others, but even if i did fly one i would have the fuel costs etc.

I am however interested in reactions and so may expand my search to low sec but even there it would need to be very close to a high sec border system, I can scout myself in using that method.

(Ach Aya) #19

It always depends on what you produce.
Example: Running Electron Bombs for 1 lane for 24 Hours:

High Sec Costs: 3,881,189,043.04 (3%)
Null Sec Costs: 3,801,164,711.23 (5%)

This alone is 80 Million cheaper in Null than High.

And in this calculation there are not the better reprocessing Rigs from Null included.
Don’t get me wrong. Nobody will produce 5000 of those bombs for almost 4 billion. And no idea what a JF transport would cost but i do think that it only depends on the production you are running to see if the bonus of null/low will actually be a profit/loss.

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(Tipa Riot) #20

Don’t forget the cost index of the system. This can kill any possible rig material reduction. In highsec, you can find systems with very low index values. How are the indexes and taxes in Delve main production facilities?

@Sade_Saldana I was using a public facility in Ignoitton for reactions. But the corp got inactive and the structure poof a couple of months ago. I regularly check, but (complex) reactions are not really profitable atm, when you buy the moon goo.