“…the time has come for the Federation to rise and liberate Intaki, to recover what is ours.”
“…liberate…recover what is ours.”
No.
This wasn’t a slip of the tongue. These words mark an important mindset that politicians at the Federal level repeatedly forget to acknowledge. Intaki does not belong to the Federation. Intaki belongs to Intaki.
While pulling Intaki from the warzone maybe isn’t the worst thing that can happen, the complete and blatant ignoring of prior arrangements between the Federation Navy and Intaki Assembly cannot go ignored. Be seein’ ya real soon Miss President.
While I do understand the reasons, I don’t understand the methods. The Federation is an enormous hegemony, but even if it is ran by individualists, it still has army, personal guards, FIO, Black Eagles, in other words - a horde of fanatics. However noble fighting them sounds, going against them alone is… suicide.
But here you have a groupd of likeminded persons. We are the State. We are a group of independent Corporations who are working together to protect our common interests. We aren’t a hegemony like the Federation and aren’t forcing anyone to join us, aren’t coercing people into some sort of ideals, especially as inhumane as Federal ideals are. We don’t have fanatics like these murderous freedom fighters, we don’t have politicians that lie to you to achieve their goals. Since we are just a group of independent megacorporations, our relations in the State are built on mutual cooperation and trust. Our values are honor, loyalty and duty.
If you want to fight the Federation, fight the Federation together with us. For the State is not just another Empire that requires you to submit and be owned, but the State is a group of friends, of brothers and sisters who will stand with you shoulder to shoulder to face the existential enemy.
Oh, no no, didn’t you hear the President? She said the Federation was reclaiming their property. Obviously, Intaki is Federation property. If you would believe them, anyways
The Intaki people were one of the founding Federation populations. Has there been a broadly-supported public referendum seceding from the Federation or rejecting Federal citizenship that has been passed by the Intaki?
If not, then when the Federation uses terms like ‘we’ and ‘ours’, it’s a pretty safe bet the ‘we’ in question includes the Intaki people. I mean, that’s just Politics 101.
I find myself consistently dismayed at how vociferously so many Intaki cry out to be ‘free’ of the Federation.
Have we forgotten that we were at pre-industrial stage of development when the Gallente and Caldari originally stumbled upon our homeworld and rather than conquer us and subjugate us they shared technology, research and culture with us? Have we forgotten that, as a result of this mutually beneficial relationship, we willingly signed on the Federal Charter as founding members of the the Federation? Have we forgotten that it was by our own demand that the Federation left very little naval presence in the area?
I see so many cries that “Intaki belongs to Intaki” as if this truth is somehow dependent on the Federation not being involved in the system at all.
I can hardly fault the Federation for not spending billions of ISK to develop a system that was within the CEMWPA area, a consequence of the lack of naval presence that we requested in the first place. Furthermore, we’ve proven incapable of securing our own borders on a number of occasions without Federal assistance, not in the least of which is the fact that the State has remained an occupying force in Placid for over a decade. What do you think would have happened to all the material and funds the Federation spent on developing the area when the State plundered the region - not once, but twice?
We are free because we have chosen to be part of something larger than ourselves, an ideal that we have not only made our own but taken active participation in for centuries. We have political agents and influence at every level of the Federal government and in business.
If you want to look at why the Intaki people have suffered for so long under Federal jurisdiction then look no further than the Federation’s respect for our own demands to be left to our own protection and the lack of us exerting political influence in the system we’ve chosen to be a part of. The Federation isn’t a monolithic totalitarian entity, there are lobbyists and interest groups that affect the sway of politics and bills can get tied up on debate for years. If you want to see the Federation invest time and money into Intaki and Placid then divert resources into the political arena and influence politics.
But a splash of cold water for you: securing the area with naval protection, removing it from the warzone and then investing into its development and protection is exactly the first step, and the correct order, to do exactly what we’ve been accusing the Federation of not doing.
We have political agents and influence at every level of the Federal government and in business.
And yet have been disenfranchised on numerous occasions and have had ourselves and our politicians silenced.
If you want to look at why the Intaki people have suffered for so long under Federal jurisdiction then look no further than the Federation’s respect for our own demands to be left to our own protection and the lack of us exerting political influence in the system we’ve chosen to be a part of.
And yet last year we received Gallente boots on the ground and now we have a system wide occupation, is this how they respect those wishes.
But a splash of cold water for you: securing the area with naval protection, removing it from the warzone and then investing into its development and protection is exactly the first step, and the correct order, to do exactly what we’ve been accusing the Federation of not doing.
Or maybe fulfilling the defence contract we asked for and not the occupation that we have never requested.
You are a Gallente sycophant and nothing more, you care for your people and there culture with the same care you have for the Holoreels you watch, we are nice to look at or maybe not even that.
The trouble with a democracy is that it is subject to the whims of its people and public opinion sways back and forth likes reeds in the wind. We have, at times, had great influence and, at other times, been marginalized.
Yes, it is. We have simultaneously cried out that we have been neglected by the Federation and left abandoned and then decried the Federation for getting involved. We cannot have it both ways. The situation in Intaki is untenable for all involved and we put the Federation into a corner when we tell it with one sentence to stay out and with the other we accuse it of neglect.
With the systems fortified and removed from the warzone, the Federation is in a position to invest infrastructure and development into the area which we’ve been asking for and without the looming threat of constant invasion, perhaps our own attention can be turned toward investing back into the Federation to make it closer to the ideal we signed on to.
At the very least we can wait to see how the next few weeks unfold and the situation develops.
It’s not an occupation when we’re literally a Federation signatory. We are part of the Federation, not an independent entity that’s been occupied by an invasion force. The Federation has established a military presence in the area, yes. They’ve begun development of infrastructure in the area, yes. Do we know how the situation will unfold? No. I’d prefer to give the Federation time to withdraw once the infrastructure we’ve been asking for is in place and the tension between the State and the Federation has cooled so the threat of reprisal is lessened before I condemn the Federation outright.
You know absolutely nothing about me and do yourself a disservice casting blanket judgments just because you disagree with my viewpoint. Disagreement and debate are healthy for our growth as individuals and as a society.
This is hardly the reasoning and you know it. The Federation had no need to sign Intaki into the CEMWPA warzone. Many other Placid Constellations are not in the warzone, including other lowsec systems.
The reason pure and simple was to keep the Intaki under Gallente thumbs. It two-fold prevented Intaki from voting whenever it was under State control as well as keeps their entire region and security in a flux of turmoil and chaos. This lapdog behavior is painful to watch. I can assure you that if Saisio was thrust into the CEMWPA warzone and the Achur were constantly disenfranchised by the State I would not be proud to be in the Caldari State.
State entities, especially in the capsuleer field have been doing this alongside the Intaki for decades as trade partners. Indeed this Federal occupation has threatened those existing facilities and trades. We all have seen the SCOPE broadcast, even they have referred to it as an occupational invasion and it is plain to see why, the Navy flew squadrons of blaster destroyers directly through the airspace of cities and incited mass panic.
I highly doubt a willful withdrawal will ever occur unless their forces are urgently needed elsewhere. The infrastructure being put in place by the Gallente Navy is for their benefit. Intaki isn’t being fortified for Intaki. It is being transformed into a staging hub similar to Amygnon.
Only a severe collapse in the Gallente Navy apparatus will change that.
And yet moot if one is incapable of perceiving the facts of the matter.
You really have a hard time with basic political concepts it seems.
The Intaki cannot vote in any Federation capacity when the State militia “occupies” Intaki’s system.
This is only possible if they are occupiable by the terms of the CEMWPA.
What do you do when you want stronger control over a population in a ‘democracy’? You restrict their capacity to influence politics and form effective movements and literally revoking the rights to vote whenever the wind rustles has got to be one of the most direct methods around.
When a group within said democracy are refused the right to vote I would personally feel that goes far beyond marginalisation.
Yes, it is. We have simultaneously cried out that we have been neglected by the Federation and left abandoned and then decried the Federation for getting involved. We cannot have it both ways. The situation in Intaki is untenable for all involved and we put the Federation into a corner when we tell it with one sentence to stay out and with the other we accuse it of neglect.
We have not cried out for occupation. However you say it is not an occupation and yet when Intaki specifically stated that it did not wish the Federation Navy to be parked within its system I would tend to suggest that would make it an occupation.
You know absolutely nothing about me and do yourself a disservice casting blanket judgments just because you disagree with my viewpoint.
I cannot defend myself on this point it was made in anguish which is unbecoming of me.
Sure, but you also have to, you know, have control over that population. What you’re saying basically amounts to a claim that the Minmatar Rebellion was secretly the Amarr Empire’s way to control us by not letting us have a voice in their society.
Was the Caldari secession and the formation of the State all a Gallente plot to marginalize the Caldari and reduce their influence in the Federation, so the Gallente could control them, too? Because if so, it’s gone swimmingly well, hasn’t it?
The State controlling the Intaki system in no way gave the Federation more control over the Intaki. It pretty directly gave them a lot less control, hence things like the State, not the Fed, deciding which megas would get to do what exploitation of the Intaki system.
We have been treated pretty badly by a lot of entities over the years and as quick as I have been to decry the form this action by the Federation has taken and I do indeed fear what is being constructed within the system. I will not defend the actions of the Khanid and Lai Dai forces which brutalised historic sites not so long ago. Admittedly the failure in that action lies not only with the State but also with the Mordus Legion forces who stood idle and let the action occur without so much as firing a rocket.
The forces of Ishukone however have worked hard in the system and have worked with the Inataki people on many occasions. Their associated capsuleer forces in the form of I-RED have also worked with the ILF in defence of the system on multiple occasions.
This is not a simple matter which can be boiled down to Caldari bad Gallente good or vice versa, though I am sure you understand that.
Indeed, I do. This is not a simple matter at all, but the resolution to it requires one thing before all else: stability. Nothing could be improved while the Intaki homeworld was under constant threat of seesawing legal structures and political status. If the Intaki people were ever going to get anything other than middle-term exploitation and marginalization by both the Federation and the State—tell me, did the State ever grant citizen status to the residents of Intaki? I think we’d have heard of it—it needed to be pulled out of the Pendulum.
And the State couldn’t do that. Not ‘wouldn’t’, mind. I get the feeling that if the State could have legally secured Intaki, they’d have been giddy to do so. Telling the Federation ‘screw you, this homeworld isn’t yours’ is kind of their jam, you know? But, as was pointed out at the beginning of this military operation (call it invasion, call it liberation, it’s an op either way), the CEWMPA agreement didn’t change the actual legal status of these systems. Still Federation space under Yulai.
So… in the end, this was always the only possible way for anything to improve.
I find your reply overtly hostile which saddens me greatly.
I to am happy that the pendulum wars no longer ravage my home.
I do not believe I ever made such a claim however if this is a tit-for-tat then I would note that the Intaki’s “voting privileges” have been removed by the Federation previously hardly a democratic thing to do.
Once again I did not argue that it did.
Now this one could be argued as comedy gold because to my knowledge Caldari Prime is entirely controlled by the Federation.
The Caldari State is not the Amarr Empire and though I bristle somewhat at their allegiance I do not hold these entities in the same regard.
The same can be said for the Federation and the Minmatar Republic one which I hold in high esteem the other which I do not, I will let my previous statements and actions inform you as to which is which.
I promise you, any hostility is entirely in your reading of things. Would it help if I added smilies?
I have no dog in this fight, and I started off by agreeing with you that the situation isn’t a simple matter. It’s not, and it doesn’t have a simple resolution. Would it be nice if there was a way to achieve the objective of getting Intaki and the surrounding systems out of the direct line of capsuleer fire without a show of military force? Of course it would.
But was it ever possible? If the Fed had just announced they were withdrawing Intaki from the warzone, while it was under Caldari control, would the State have accepted that? Would the Megacorps have accepted ‘oh, well, our subcontracting for resource exploitation is all null and void now, let’s not use corporate security assets to contest this’?
Past behavior indicates it’s more likely they’d have ordered someone to suicide-detonate a titan in the atmosphere to render the planet lifeless, first. I mean, if they’re willing to do it to their homeworld, they’ll sure as hell do it to someone else’s.
Nope, it’s not a tit-for-tat, nor is it an assertion that you made the claim. Rather, it’s simply establishing that at no point did the State make any move that indicated they didn’t still accept the Yulai border as the underlying legal reality. ie: even the State knew the State couldn’t withdraw Intaki from the warzone, only the Federation could.
No, and once again, it’s not about what you said. It’s establishing that the State couldn’t do what Intaki needed someone to do. That’s it.
Intaki needed someone to get it out of the warzone. Only one entity had the legal standing to do it. So in the binary choice of ‘which is better, Intaki being in a position where someone might decide to do a full-scale planetary assault a la Floseswin IV, or the Federation setting up a defensive perimeter while they unf*ck the status of one of their founding homeworlds?’ … I mean, sincere question. You tell me. I’m curious which you think would be better.
Really? Because ever since Operation Highlander, Caldari Prime’s been a shared, demilitarized world…
Now, will it remain that way? Hard to say, but I think since the State’s already invaded Luminaire once over the planet, if the Federation try to change that status in any way, they’ll do it again. And this time, they probably won’t stop until they’ve reduced every other planet in the system to slag.
Let me be clear here: I am not a fan of either of the Expansionist Powers. I definitely do have a preference for the one that isn’t actively attempting to destroy my people and blow up our stars, but I very much would prefer the cluster be in a much more stable configuration where the two isolationist powers make common cause to tell the Expansionists (who, ideologically, are far too diametrically opposed to enter a similar league) to screw right off and leave us out of their fedo farts.
