Introduce Upkeep allready

If you say so.


the proposal is elegant in its simplicity. unlike the rube goldburg ideas that get implemented to achieve dubious goals. whatever the scale that gets applied based on ship type , at least it would be a clear and honest approach to pulling isk out of the game

How about starting small, fuel for AB and MWD.

in the interest of fairness that would impact low end players more than high end.

That’s what we can say about any kind of taxation, no? :grin:

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depends on the scaling function . as mentioned above a .00000001 % tax on a frigate vs a 1% tax on a super

CCP also never intended for people to live in wormholes either, but here we are. And I’d say that how things actually work and how players actually behave is quite relevant to any discussion about changing how things work.

It is relevant but capital/supercapital proliferation is also a very bad thing so it justifies a change regardless of the original intent. It just happens to be the case that the original intent was far better than the current situation and should be kept in mind as a design goal for fixing the current problem.

So I’m fairly new but I have some thoughts on what you’ve already proposed. I may mention something that’s already a part of the game or won’t work etc. but this is just my ‘off the top’ thoughts.

Upkeep seems like a fantastic idea. I think certain aspects of the game could really benefit from having to maintain that level of wealth/power. I had this idea the other day where I thought, maybe something like upkeep for capital ships (maybe even BS+ after industry changes) and it would work like the assets of a fictional military. Essentially if you have huge ships, you need somewhere huge to store them (exists I know), but you also can have those ships active or inactive. Active ships means you can go grab the ship and use it immediately but you pay to keep the ship in an active state. Inactive ships have to be activated ahead of time (the process would take maybe a day or two to activate them) and once they go active you can go use them. Additionally, perhaps there is some lore-based aspect of activating ships that makes it so that when you (or anyone) starts activating a ship or multiple ships, that this is somewhat detectable through the map or Dotlan or something. Almost like I said before, a fictional army getting ready.

Next thought is slightly related but not the same. This idea came about because the wealth distribution is absolutely horrid where it feels like newer players aren’t even playing the same game, just a simplified ‘toy’ version of the game. Solo players and new players have to learn all the aspects of the game, face loss and defeat from larger groups, and as far as I know it’s not really even possible to own an up well or structure of some kind by yourself because essentially it WILL get destroyed and for a solo or newbro that’s everything gone. It would be nice to see a feature or even new region of the map in which the act of placing structures or securing sovereignty doesn’t exist at all. Just a neutral no mans land that has both high and low sec as well as explo, mining, worms, the usual stuff. Force anyone who enters this region of new eden to leave their fleets and generally find a decent way of discouraging group play in this area (I know that CCP could do this in a decent way if they tried hard enough). This would help secure new players a chance to get out there and compete without constantly running across rogue groups and huge corps or gate camps. Make it so there are one way gates into this region so that you can only enter it from specific “hard points” but let there be many many exits. Another good idea would be to have this area procedurally generated and it would reset on some interval like weekly or biweekly. Think of it: a bountiful region of space that rewrites itself weekly so that no long term strategy or gate camps or sovereignty control could skew the risk reward for new players.

Third idea: don’t let players store more than a certain amount of WEALTH in one structure. Essentially force players to spread out their stuff so that even if you have billions, you can’t access all of it right away. If you still need to use your stuff you can go and manually collect what you need but this would help level the playing field in general since you can’t just accrue wealth in one safe corner of the map. Also if you want to empty the pockets of 100B+ accounts (and I thought 5B was wealthy lol), CCP should add a REAL bounty system where as you get more and more rich, there are more and more people tracking you and your location data starts to become somewhat public.

Thing is, there already sort of kind of is an upkeep cost to Capitals. When we look at things like producing supers, You need to own Sov. Upkeep cost there. You need to own a Sotiyo. Upkeep cost there.

The problem isnt upkeep. Larger coalitions and groups have no problem paying upkeep. All this does is alienate smaller groups that cant afford upkeep.

What we need are better counters to supers.


Kinda already exists, and its called Thera. But I dont see how you could ever design a space where it is impossible for people to work together. How would that be possible?

I think new players already have a decent location where big groups cant really bully them. Its called hisec. People do their solo stuff all the time in hisec, and they dont get bothered.

indeed you are fairly new.

It’s already present in the game. You pay for ammos, for caps fuels.
Other than that would just be a hassle for everybody.

There was upkeep cost before for your SP. They were called “clone grade” and were complete ■■■■. : people prefered to stop playing than to lose a clone.

That’s because, there is no wealth distribution. So your idea is based on a nonsense.

Now other people already proposed universal income which I totally think would be better for the newbros. something like 10M per day would help a lot IMO and would not add to much isks. Of course only omega players.
Now even better you could redirect a part of the game taxes into it.

What if I already have several stations with 100B in each ?
How do you think I can do manufacturing without 100b of items ? just a BPC of marauder 4runs requires like 6B of stuff to manufacture. I have 10s of them.

FYI right now I have 4 cans full of T2 BPC and 20 cans with various BPOs. Just the value of the bpos is over 300B.
Over the last 30 days I bought 130B of items.

You are indeed new, you have no idea what playing Eve actually means.

how about no?
keep away from my money


Guess I’ll just sell the capitals I have then.
I don’t like grinding ISK, so my wallet is often below 100M ISK… so I grind ISK anyway to be able to buy new ships that I can lose in fights.
If instead of losing the ISK in fun explosions, I lose the ISK to a gaping hole in my wallet called ‘upkeep’ to maintain some ship in my hangar, that ship won’t be in my hangar much longer. If that’s what you want to accomplish, go ahead.

I just think it’s a bad idea. There are much better ways to fight capital proliferation that do not severely hurt people who have a capital ship but rarely use it.

Instead, make those capital ships more expensive by making them require special expensive materials that are not needed for sub-caps. (This is what CCP is doing right now by the way, take a look at the upcoming industry update!)

More expensive capitals means it’s harder to replace them, it’s rarer to see them and more expensive explosions. Isn’t that what we all want?


Same. I would just lose the ability to pick an arbitrary ship in my hangars and that would just make eve even less choice and more “go abyssal and that’s it”. It’s because I have tens of bases every where that I can afford to change activity whenever I want, and that I feel free in Eve.If I had to sell my ships when I don’t use them … that would just mean Eve is not interesting anymore.

The problem with making capitals more expensive is that it just delays the inevitable. CCP already tried that, making them so prohibitively expensive that building a single titan was a massive newsworthy accomplishment by an entire alliance. And now people optimized their production and ISK generation to the point that a battle doesn’t even draw attention if it doesn’t have a few hundred titans involved.

An upkeep cost rather than a production cost solves the hoarding problem. You can’t build up obscenely huge capital fleets that are impossible for 90% of the game to compete with because there’s an ongoing cost to maintain those capital fleets even if you aren’t losing them.

But those upkeep costs don’t scale with the number of capitals/supercapitals you build. Once you own sovereignty and a place to store them you’re set.

What we need are better counters to supers.

And that’s very difficult to accomplish when you have the massive N+1 problem with capital blobs. The first thing to do is to scale down the number of capitals. At that point the smaller groups can bring the anti-capital counters and it will matter much less if they can’t afford a titan because the other side can only afford one titan instead of 500.

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So you are saying, make the capitals completely useless.

That “upkeep” is already present : it’s the price to replace the ship
If your titan lasts only 2 years, then the upkeep is basically its building cost divided by 730.

What’s more : it would only “delay the inevitable”.

The only thing that would work, is to fix the balance of caps - and most important, of blobs in general.

Every time a DD shoots, it applies a debuff in 50 km that increases the spool of DD by 5s for 60s. Basically the titan shooting voids the necessary energy around it. It also increases the cap recharge delay by 5%.

whenever a dread sieges, it reduces the range of nearby ships (40km) by 20%


Yep. And nothing of value will be lost.

im with @Gerard_Amatin on that