Youre idea is like everyone elses ideas…an opinion on how this game should follow a certain path for improvement, thats it. Thats all it is. Not everyone is going to like your ideas.
Im very much listening to everyones opinions…no matter how great or ludicrous they may be. The idea thats been settled on in the decided path the game is taking…theres nothing you can suggest that will change that now.
But to just state in black and white that you want it to fail before even seeing it implemented says all i need to hear. Perhaps save your ideas AFTER the system is in place. Then, maybe somebody might listen to you.
That is true. CCP is well-known for ignoring player feedback, doing something that they think is great, ignoring players telling them that it is not, then realizing that it actually is not, and then continue to blame the players for why it is bad (Rorquals, Inflation, Supercap farming, Scarcity, servers crashing, market manipulation etc.)
The fact that they create a safe space for newbs that does not teach them EVE but instead a Hello Kitty Universe is testament that they continue on that path.
The fact that every newbie guide from now on needs to include the phrases “Outside Exordium people can change their safety to red and attack you” is testament to that projected increased frustration.
The fact that they consider newbie protection outside that safe space is testament to how this system fails at preparing the new players for EVE.
Servers crashing alone isn’t an intentional design goal or a matter of opinion of players vs devs…
Scarcity was a neccesary evil, I’m afraid. But, null players will never admit that…
And on devs following player suggestions, look at what the playerbase (or Blizzard listening to the playerbase) did to WoW. Yikes.
It is a design goal if you introduce massive structures that require massive fleets for engagements.
Scarcity was ONLY needed because CCP screwed up the economy for years with Rorqual mining and Supercap ratting, despite players telling them repeatedly and from the very beginning of Rorquals that this will ruin the game.
Look at what it did to EVE when devs ignore player suggestions.
All the poor experiences in the past 12 years are squarely the fault of CCP ignoring better advice.
^^ This right here. Somebody please tell me what game out there that has ever listened to their player base and changed things exactly like they wanted for the good or bad. ( WoW has just gone wacky in all instances )
Again, i really feel that you are just reaching to exaggerate scenarios that havent even occured yet. You have no clue as to how players will interact with this new system until after its live. CCP will always make changes that people dont like…they will always screw things up.
Now we are going back 12 years. How far are you going to reach.
If Exordium was unrestricted for any captsuleer but only using jump clones, this will solve a lot of problems no ?
You can make tutorial who offer nothing there except ships and modules for the game understanding.
No suicide gank, you jump clone to the career agents station.
No standard farming if nothing have real value you can use outside.
Possibility to make a specific gameplay to earn ships there for showing it during events.
You can even make Collaboration products only there without poisoning the main game.
You seem to miss how big and impactful this update actually is.
One big thing to consider here is that CCP is preventing PvP, even if ganking isn’t really an issue. Why? This is mostly done as a PR move, with the goal to fix skewed public perception on the game as a whole.
One of the biggest issues that EVE has is this false perception, where most outsiders consider EVE to be a hardcore elite xXxHARDxXx game. Various comment sections (like on YT) are littered with comments like:
Even in this thread we have some people who are confused and falsely believe that newbro ganking is a widespread problem, for example. CCP adding NPE helped the perception of the game a lot, now we get comments like:
Now, with the introduction of full-sec, the perception of EVE will skew even closer to being a more accessible modern game, which will help the game overall a lot.
And on CCP implementing “better” player suggestions, I have one good example. There are some people who float the idea, that the main NPE should guide players into low-sec. Imagine comments on EVE if CCP actually listened to such players:
Since it seems that you don’t know that “better” is a subjective thing, I don’t really want to continue the discussion and address unrelated topics. Cheers.
That quote isn’t formally know as Occam’s Razor but it is often used in a similar way… That’s why I added ‘In other words - The simplest explanation is usually correct.’ That actually is Occam’s Razor…
That quote is from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, it’s something his character Sherlock Holmes said.
Occam’s Razor is frequently cited as Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem, which translates as “Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity”, although Occam never used those exact words. Popularly, the principle is sometimes paraphrased as “of two competing theories, the simpler explanation of an entity is to be preferred”.
Your moronic paranoia is apparent as you have repeatedly said that statistics about ganking in EvE are just a PR line from CCP. This theory falls foul of Occam’s razor as it is simpler to say that CCP have published valid and correct statistics. Why would they do otherwise?
My words failed me! I meant to say it’s the only way in, but the gate from Yulai into Exordium acts as a normal gate (two way, unlimited connections, etc)
So, whats the plan to prevent full skilled Veterans from entering the Sites meant for Newbros and clearing them in seconds with some auto-targeting Missile Jackdaws or other pimpmobiles just for the lulz? O mining out whole newbro belts with Ore-Miner fitted Exhumers with Orca Boosts, both unkillable.. Maybe not making that much profits, but erasing the content in record speed?
Well, if that is what the veterans want, we must accept this fate that some bored people just sabotage every attempt to get fresh blood to the game and make weaker peoples life miserable.
Hey folks! I’m all caught up on the current state of the thread now
To answer a few questions I’ve seen come up:
As has been mentioned above, the travel in and out of Exordium will consist of a normal stargate connecting to Yulai (which we expect to be the primary path most players use to leave and it will definitely be the primary way to enter) as well as some single-use per character shipcasters that lead to the FW War HQ systems for each faction (Mehatoor, Onnamon, Intaki, and Amo). The shipcasters will have ship restrictions that we can adjust as needed for balance, although we plan to start with a set of ship restrictions that allow players to use all the ships that are very common for new players (which includes T1 haulers). Recycling alts to use the shipcasters with T1 haulers would be technically possible, but we have a few ways of adjusting things if it becomes a problem including declaring that tactic against the rules and taking enforcement actions against heavy users, or if needed we can limit the allowed ship types further (but we’d only want to do that if it’s really needed, since it would have a detrimental impact on normal new player activities).
We’re taking a similar “wait and see” approach to whether suicide ganking specifically targeting new players becomes a problem at the Manifest gate in Yulai. This is something we discussed internally from very early on in the design and we have some tools in our toolbox to respond if need be, ranging from changes to the new player griefing support page guidelines to some mechanical options that could make that specific chokepoint less vulnerable. This is another case where we don’t want to overreact ahead of time though and we’ll only take action if it turns out to be needed
As the folks passing along messages from the discord noted above: we’re not changing the old starter systems or career agents in this expansion. The most important reason we’re leaving those untouched at this time is that we don’t want to disrupt the gameplay flow for folks who started playing right before the expansion (it would suck if you started your career agents in one system but when you came back a few days later you had to travel to another region to continue them). We aren’t promising that the existing career agents will stay put forever, but we have no plans to remove or move them in the forseeable future.
Since it came up here, I’ll note that we’re not removing the ability to choose your player’s faction. Instead, we’re just decoupling the connection between which faction you’ve chosen and which starter system you appear in after the initial phase of the NPE missions. In the future we’re interested in exploring making potential changes to the way players choose their factions to let the players make a more informed and meaningful decision, but that exploration is potential work for the future not something for this expansion and it would still involve the player choosing their home starter empire.
Concerns about farming of the content in safety (either with veteran characters or with new alts controlled by veterans) is very valid but it’s also something we’ve been planning for from the beginning of this design. Besides the lower rewards for content and higher taxes in this space which were mentioned in the blog, the plan includes updating the support page to make farming of the content in Exordium by veteran players specifically against the rules so we can warn or otherwise take action against players who do it enough that it becomes noticeable. There will be a popup when a character older than 30 days enters or logs on within this region that also lets them know that this is a space for new players and they’re welcome to come to interact positively with the new players but that they’re not allowed to use the space for farming or griefing.
I’ve been in Eve since 2008 and let me tell you, I don’t even bother with low risk high sec L4 missions much anymore except for amusement (and LP) because the isk payout is too small. Why the hell would an older player looking to make good isk mess with the pennies lying on the floor in the new region when the entire universe is open to them to make REAL money? I sure as hell wouldn’t bother making newbie alts for this purpose. My RL time is far too valuable for this kind of nonsense.
Some players are just so anti-change and afraid of anything they feel will poison their garden of pure PVP ideology.
True. If some older veteran player really thinks “heyy now I can mine 8 hours per day in total safety in sucking 0-grade Veldspar roids that will be drained in 5 minutes so I will have to re-lock 2432 roids and warp 432 times between micro-belts to make 20 million ISK risk-free at the end of those 8 hours!!!” then everyone shold pity him.
That’s a dumb player, either newb or vet. You can definitely guide people into low sec via the tutorial without making it look like grieving. Give them a mission to deliver an item from their school station to a station in low sec, which has at least 2 access routes. Give them a few hints like which map stats and external resources to check for intel on the route, where gate camps are most likely to take place, how to fit your ship for the best survival chances (align time, cloak, stabs, tank) and then send them away.
If they don’t die, congratulate them on their major success. They get a big thank you, a massive reward bonus and are send on their way to the next tutorial step or whatever.
If they die, give them a second chance, suggest another route. Do they die again? Tell them this is how some endeavors end in EVE. Preparation is key but situations happen in EVE. If they could not finish the delivery the second time, they are let off the hook, get a replacement ship and a minor reward for the intel their deaths provided. They will learn a ton of valuable lessons from just this one tutorial.
Just because you cannot see beyond your limited horizon, it does not mean other people with a better grasp on the matter can’t either.
For me, this is not about newb ganking. I am mostly talking about later stage people being unaware of anything. Ganking is only one aspect, mission objective stealing, suspect baiting, contract pvp and other things are just some things these people will not learn in this secluded space and will be subjected to unaware of. That’s why so many people cry about their blingy Marauder losses in Apanake or Lanngisi or Osmon.
You are right though, this is an impactful change. It’s a glorious marketing ploy that attracts a whole lot of great unwashed who will not have any clue and capacity on how to deal with the stark difference between Exo and the rest of the cluster. Just your typical tyrannical CCP marketing.
I am only telling you how long this CCP screwing around goes on.
