System of Manjonakko was lost in less than a day just now. According to information, only presence in system was few Pro-Edencom people attempting to delay the capture with rest of the people taking a breather after three day grind in Passari. So clearly the NPC navy did not form even a mediocore obstacle for Trig NPCs.
Passari was a uniquely good place to measure the effect of players and rats on progress. Being a small lowsec system, we knew exactly which player fleets were running at all times. The system had pro-Edencomm fleets for the extended EUTZ (around 08:00 to 23:00) for two days, and was (almost) NPC only for USTZ. This split makes each effect obvious.
The data shows that:
- Without players, trigs win around 3-4%/hour (here, 30-35% over USTZ).
- Small (10-20) pro-edencomm fleets can reverse this, with a similar progress gain while running.
It follows that:
- Caldari systems will fall in around half a day if no players get involved. This is consistent with trig NPCs winning Manjanakko (right after) in less than 12 hours.
- Defending Caldari lowsec with 10-20 people needs an around-the-clock effort (at least 12 hours a day or so) just to ‘draw’ with the trig NPCs.
In my opinion, this is not balanced or a good player experience.
There are not enough players to regularly contest the trig NPCs in Caldari lowsec. There are fairly few lowsec FW groups that can repeatedly field 10-20 players for 12 hours a day for FW (nullsec, stop sniggering in the back), and even fewer who could for essentially PVE grinding against rats. If they do, it’s frustrating to watch progress disappear whenever they inevitably pause to sleep etc.
The consequence is that most lowsec Caldari systems will quickly fall uncontested (as we’re seeing). These trig systems then make it progressively harder to roam lowsec or do/resupply FW, both of which reduce content. For example, there is now no easy way to fly from Caldari highsec to the current flashpoint systems, which is especially hard on the new players for whom FW is perhaps intended. This will get worse as invasions continue.
Besides the consequences for FW (which, in fairness, is the kind of shake-up CCP promised!), players need to matter. To matter, the NPCs (trigs vs faction) need to be roughly balanced. While ‘balanced to within 10 players’ is pretty even for highsec, that’s a huge skew in lowsec when you consider the player-hours needed.
I would make the same argument for the kybernauts - if the trigs are getting auto-smashed in, say, lowsec Amarr, I think that would also need tweaking. Maybe someone else has data there.
Some choice quotes from Discord:
I feel the effort that we had to go through to save this system was utterly ridiculous
it’s a real uphill battle, that is no fun…
wtf, waste of 12 hours yesterday
We actually timed out a Caldari low sec in Passari, considering how bad is the State, it was a massive win for Edencom
Caldari sucks butt
@CCP_Delegate_Zero @CCP_Convict Thank you for working on invasions and talking to players. I hope the data is useful. You can verify the weak Caldari Navy easily enough by spawning an invasion and letting it run.
Some notes. Progress was reconstructed from timestamped posts on calmil and EDI discord. Edencomm fleets were approx 10-20 people. The Kyber fleet had approx. 25 people. We assume the rats are a constant effect. Data does not include the first day, because we didn’t post about it.
I would love to see some form of expansion to this content so that more players can either participate or get meaningful rewards for it. Incorporate the modify and incorporate some of the new ESS system that you guys want to for nullsec so that people doing roaming fleets can get payouts for it.
Use some of the old resource wars silliness but with trig ores so that people can upgrade their factions roaming fleets or set up werposts/gunstars in contested systems. Reward people with LP for the trig ores.
Cause right now in active invasion systems if you want to be paid for your involvement at all your option is to grind payouts.
I hear you brother, been saying this since almost day #1
As a stopgap:
DELETE Caldari Navy from EDENCOM entirely.
This would prevent the bleed from Trig vs/ Navy that slams the progress bar when no human intervention is present. It is a shame to say that removing them entirely is better than having them die en-masse to NPC trigs.
Most populous area of Hisec
Has least likely percent of people to defend it.
Did you read this?
Looks like NPCs in each empire space are differently designed and have different effect of participation in the final result.
Also I didnt see that there was smaller amount of EDENCOM forces in the Caldari high sec systems. Quite opposite, but maybe it was early and people still thought they will win if enough of them will fight at last. But Caldari NPCs die really fast.
I hadnt seen it, no, but ty
I assume you’re just tossing out some snark here, but presumably you’re aware the FW areas aren’t hi-sec, and the populations of active combat players in FW regions are driven by completely different mechanics than hi-sec. That’s why Caldari is specifically the issue here.
So what you’re saying is, CCP has decided once again to simulate activity in EVE by putting NPCs into the game in a way that reduces content, makes things inconvenient for players, and ignores the gameplay effects on players, almost as if they didn’t know what’s going on in their own game?
Well, that’s a shocker!
But, thank you for the excellent writeup and data provided as well some helpful analysis. Hopefully CCP can put it to good use.
Not for me!
There is a way left to get triglavians a neutral entity tho, for characters, its to get triglavian standings up by shooting few ships in the EDENCOM sites…
@Nana_Skalski everything on amarr space is bigger and better
Ok if you say so. Whats FW got to do with it again?
What sec status is a trig system? 0.0 then get rid of the trig gate guns. Low sec then no bubble. High sec just a trig system then trig kill suicide gankers. In low sec any aggression by anyone will cause the gate guns to fire at you. In trig systems the gate guns will only fire at those not friendly to the Trig. Why do the non-trig seem to not notice the trig invasion at all? Trig ships are good, the filaments could use a buff on loot putting all the ffa junk filaments in has ruined the drops. Trig invasion is terrible. Linking Tranquility with the chinese server is horribly bad and means the players actually have less control and input then before the invasion. Trig not invading null means its simply ccp making even more systems in empire ghost towns.
You can’t have any pvp anywhere without a safe area to build research and trade. That area was high security. The trig invasions are blocking areas of high security from each other. This makes assets like bpos or datacores from research effectively removed from the game.
Except not only is this untrue (fix your standings), they are in fact a boon to industry in multiple ways.
If you feel hamstrung, you need to remember the 34th Rule of Aquisition.
Oh wait, that’s the other rule 34.
Anyone know why the agency is not showing escalating liminalities or redoubts & bulwarks anymore?
No system currently in that status.
EDENCOM, with help of capsuleers loyal to the empires have kept Trigs away from invading new systems, for a day, may be a bit longer.
Okay so a lot of critique on this “invasion”.
it doesn’t feel like a meaningful invasion. Invasion hotspots seem to pop in and out with no real goal insight besides “star color”. However, invasion doesn’t feel like a growing force. It’s hard to find contested chains that grow from the source, spreading logistic lines and the like and pushing a line of battle. It feels fake. Looks fake. Just feels like the devs are making a stellar hole punch.
because of the nature of how systems are taken its unnaturally shallow. Industry players can’t assist with the building of fortifications, exploration players have their jobs cut out from them, the only thing is combat. Overall feels a bit soulless.
the invasion is distant. Like the Star Wars prequels, the war is so far away from the mainstream that it’s just talked about like some sort of nuisance in the background. Which it is. The systems captured by either side now only exist to dirty the hoes of farming fleets. No one feels the stress of an encroaching enemy because there’s nothing marching on their doorstep.
This is just how I feel so far at least. All in all this is a pretty sorry excuse for an invasion and I hope it’s because the even is just starting. I hope that there’s something else to all of this.