Is manufacturing going in the good direction for dynamism?

Communications Center General Discussion
1

Hi all,

Manufacturing evolved a lot since T2 didn’t even existed lol

And it s great. I am not complaining at all manufacturing is kind of challenging, evolving and adapting to game environment. I love that, the necessity to optimise logistics and costs reduction

But what about now ? With the new manufacturing scheme, what bothers me is that it’s braking a lot the game in terms of mouvement, forcing people to actually concentrate the entire manufacturing scheme, from PI processing and moon goo to end product.

For example, before the revamp, building a jump freighter could be done quite easily and “internationally”. For example I used to buy most of my stuff in jita and everything could fit in a jump freighter (my alliance doesn’t produce all the composites, or some composites are much more expensive than their building blocks cost so I was doing myself) with some compressed ore and things like that. Bringing down then my stuff to maximised refineries and sotiyos.
I even sold the jump freighter on the public market. That made therefore live everyone in the EVE ecosystem, providing to everyone the growth resulting from the process.

But now it’s not doable anymore as it’s not even possible to bring enough water in a jump freighter to build the T1 freighter required to do the jump freighter
Like, lol ?

Is that a problem for me ? No it’s not. I don’t care doing few more jumps in an epithal to bring my water

However people complained about nullsec alliance and lack of dynamism. But that’s doing exactly that. Am I wrong ?

I feel like the system promotes now too much internal Alliance trading rather than global trading. And if the scope is to bring dynamism and flexibility to the game rather than camping huge alliances, this doesn’t help

Am I wrong ? What s you feeling ?

As a general rule (thanks Brexit for the good real life example lol), reducing logistics and trade never brings good, from the miner to the end user, passing through haulers and manufacturer

So that’s my point. Don’t brake down and slow down the mechanics. Don’t force people to trade internally rather than between everybody

1 Like
2

I’m thinking that there might be an issue or two with the current state of industry. I’m also thinking that there might be some merit to the issue your raised as well. However, I have to ask, have you looked through the MER’s to see if there is any evidence to support this, or were you hoping someone else would do it for you?
No P2W

3

If I just knew what MER stands for I could answer you

Edit Oh monthly economic report - I guess
Yes there is. Production is all time low, this could be due to people, like I did, rushing capitals production before the patch so now there’s a countereffect of slowdown. We will see on next reports.
Other evidence is skyhigh contracts values in Delve, Vale of the silent, kalevala of the last month report
We will also see with time if it stands
But this could be simply due to capitals increase cost - hence more contracts value rather than more internal trade

So yeah a bit too soon to statistically draw conclusions with confidence, but the trends may be there : production going down, contracts going up in alliance zones : internal trade is favored

4

No, its total balls

If you arent in a large Alliance, good luck building anything other than T1.

Thats my T2 cruiser factory being shut down.

Another profession I was actually enjoying stopped by ccp

2 Likes
5

Check the MER and my edited answer here above

6

Definitely. It’s hard. You still have some spot products to produce in tech2 and make nice profit but you need to constantly check the items. It s lot of work

I will not give which t2 product are worth producing now in HS but there are.
Drones, strip miners, some rigs have been for long profitable to do even in 2020-2021 but you need to check market constantly.
Ships are a mess I agree

But you are not saying why it’s balls. You are actually just enforcing even more my point : you are just getting more and more dependent of big alliance stable operations for industry, and the fact that the internal trade is even more promoted with latest modification will just give more reasons for industry to be concentrated in NS alliances

So if the point is to force people to be dynamic, smaller structured, the industry modifications are a total fail

7

No, its balls because Im not about to set up a whole bunch of other tedious industry like reactions.

I simply dont have the time or inclination to do mining, PI, reactions AND still buy stuff off the market.

It would be unrealistic to imagine I could, and its CCP pandering to bigger alliances at the cost of everyone else, just like cores were.

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8

Exactly as I do

Fully agreed

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9

Yes, sorry misread one of your points.

Yes we agree.

10

This is a topic I wish I understood better, but I stopped logging in before they made all these changes to industry (That is, before regional mineral distribution and manufacturing changes) and I haven’t been able to piece together a high level overview of what’s going on from the sporadic complaints. I get that there seems to be a lot more variety in the items required to manufacture, but I don’t know how these items are sourced or how they move through the eve ecosystem from the point of view of a manufacturer outside of a larger supporting network, or what hurdles stand in the way of smaller industry groups these days.

11

There is more variety that s true, and it’s good because it pulls a demand for some materials that were niche.
Variety is as a general a good thing as it diversifies the demand and therefore the “offerers” have also more variety

It can be the explorer looking for relics, artifacts
It can be the researcher have to diversify its BPCs portfolios and optimise them
Or the mining industry that will not aim for only one OP mineral, rest being ■■■■■■■■, but having more mining choices and mitigation options

Diversification is iMO positive in all aspects. It create dynamism and variety which for a game is a good thing.

However, what is here the issue for me (I am not a wide manufacturer so I am talking for what I know and produce and what I say may not be true to all manufacturing domains) this increased basically even more the dependency of the manufacturer to the nullsec alliance.
Basically the need on PI material has been vastly increased and the volumes of material to produce a same product impacted by the modification basically doubled or tripled (at least what I am used to produce so may not be true for all the involved products).
This basically therefore push the scheme to integrate even more the entire chain of production from the rawest of the materials to your end product.
Integration is not itself bad, as it is related to optimisation ; but now it became basically impossible not being TOTALLY integrated, meaning you HAVE to be part of big alliance

That s the problem
The game offers no mechanics or no parallel ways or options for manufacturers not to be in a big integrated alliance ; more than even

If not being part of a big alliance offered alternatives, or ways to do things differently while still being able optimise, and do your business efficiently, it would be perfectly fine

But it’s not the case and these modifications made it worse IMO

Edit : and I am part of a big alliance, so fundamentally I can still do my business, but I don’t like it and I’m prefer having the game destructured in smaller organisation than big behemoth ruling the game.
But as manufacturing is my main source of income (because I hate mining, PI, and I am bad at fighting lol so I can sustain my poor skills), I am bound to big alliance and I’d like the game to be more agile, dynamic and have variety that in it s current state

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12

What have they changed in the making of T2 cruisers? My understanding was that T1 cruisers were still just minerals and T2 manufacturing hasn’t changed. Did I miss something?

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Theres a whole pile of new crap for anything thats not basic T1.

Basic T1 also doesnt include BSes or anything above.

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But they didn’t change T2 did they?

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As far as I was informed they changed everything that wasnt basic T1, including T1 BS and above

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So this is complete fiction then. There has been no change to T2 cruisers.

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How do you work that out?

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T1 cruisers - no change
T2 manufacturing - no change

I should actually say minimal change to T1 cruisers, because I think they might have changed the mineral requirements, but they don’t use any of the new stuff

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No one disagreed with that

If you say so (???)

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Last time I made any T2 components they had not changed. This was about 6 weeks ago.

As far as I am aware they only changed T1 battleships, capitals and supercapitals + faction ships.