Using multiple ‘logical fallacies’ to attempt to disprove a point is itself a logical fallacy. Especially as nobody ever does anything 100% due to logic. Thus arguing that an argument pointing out that reasons for doing things are not logical is fallacious is itself not logical as nobody is Mr Spock.
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And I’m very much glad they’re a minority, but even in my own guild I have a guy who admits to multi-boxing with three miner accounts.
As someone who is only just starting to try and get ISK stable in EvE, I sympathize, but I also think that’s part of the game.
As near as I can tell, there is no way to make “a lot of ISK safely” in EvE online. You can either make decent ISK safely with a lot of time, or a lot of ISK quickly with a lot of risk, but if there was a way to make big money with little risk, everybody would be doing that.
Which means that all of the decent money makers already have so many people doing them, that I cant seem to squeeze significant profit out of them.
But that doesnt mean dying has to be the name of the game, it means you have to get really good at what you do! If hauling wasnt profitable because of all the losses, nobody would do it. It IS profitable, but in every activity in this game, it does mean you have to take it seriously. Read guides, check youtube videos, make sure your build is 100% up to snuff, and understand that you WILL take losses until you get good and familliar with the routes, so consider possibly flying something cheaper just for practice the first few times.
That is a LOT of work, and that seems to be EvE in a nutshell. You can make a real impact on this galaxy, but you have to work for it.
That kind of game won’t be for everyone. It is for me. I love the thrill of succeeding at something I know could have gotten me killed, and even my losses often teach me a lesson.
If you do not enjoy that, you may have to contend yourself with truly “casual activities”, but understand that none of those are going to be bringing in big ISK.
Also bear in mind, EvE is more fun with friends. Your escorts, scouts and allies dont have to be strangers. You can join corps or even non-Corp initiatives to haul safely together and make a good profit.
This game can be a lot of fun, but I too have had the door repeatedly slammed in my face in the quest for easy ISK and I think…I may have been chasing something that didnt exist.
So hey ho hey ho, off to work I go…
Good luck, friend!
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Yeah, but if we plot average player age by chosen activity, how do you think that would look like? Do you think that players who mine in a Retrievers in 0.9 systems would have the same longevity as players who run exploration content?
Well, multi-boxing is entirely legit, so that doesn’t matter. The point is there are so many players doing nothing but mining (especially low-ends), that mining profits are horrible. The game already pushes new players into mining, and the community isn’t helping matters with its “feel-good” advice.
A lot of players quit the game because of how utterly boring it is. I’d venture to guess that more players quit every week because they’re bored to tears from mining Veldspar, than the amount of players who quit in a year because of ganking.
I talk to people in other games about EVE when I have a chance (had quite a few conversations over the past few months while playing Classic Hardcore), and the ones who stopped playing EVE invariably told me that they quit because the game was so boring.
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Just keep in mind there’s a big difference between “botting” and Omega multi-boxing (which is strongly encouraged by CCP and pretty much required now to be successful in various EVE careers, not to mention the financial viability of the game).
Multi-boxed miners are one of the reasons prices haven’t gotten even more ridiculous in-game. Some people poo-poo the idea but it’s necessary for the current EVE economy. Even multi-boxing 25 mining Orcas in high-sec is still perfectly valid and beneficial gameplay for EVE and CCP.
Botting is a whole different matter.
And you can pretty much ignore the whole “too many people are mining so it ruins the mining profits which leads to too many people mining” line of reasoning because it’s nonsense. The EVE economy literally regulates that sort of thing and it’s up to the players to decide if they’re going to do what it takes to compete, or find something else to do.
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This is precisely why I would encourage people to partake of multiple different activities, even if it means spreading out the skills points between characters on the same account ( which is what I do ). If a person devotes all their time and skills to just one activity then of course its all going to seem pointless when they get bored and have 50m SP all devoted to one career or ship type…and it all seems too much effort to start training up another character. My advice is to at the very least spread the SP between two characters.
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There are many activities that both pay really well and have relatively low risk. For example, low-sec anomalies can average out between 100-200 million an hour (based on skills), while being nearly perfectly safe because the vast majority of low-sec is devoid of players. There are entire clusters of systems out there that see maybe a dozen jumps a day total. Market trading is another good example. You can snowball your money without ever leaving the station.
But people aren’t recommending these activities, either because they’re carebears who carry prejudiced notions of how scary low-sec space is, or don’t want to let new players in on money-making strategies that would place them in direct competition with themselves. So then what we get is a bunch of carebears telling new players “don’t listen to the griefers sweetie, just put some bulkheads on your Obelisk and off you go to make that Jita trip!” All the while they’re throwing another batch of freighter prints into their industrial slots because they know they’re about to make some quick sales. Forum-whining carebears will never have your best interests in mind; they’ll just pretend that they do.
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Making such an amount on a single account (which is what most people bragging about their income “forget to mention” is very good. And you can make it even safer, but lower income, by doing it in high sec. Any 7 day newbie who can fly a destroyer or basic cruiser, who puts in 30 minutes of their time to read a wiki and watch a YT guide can start doing high sec combat sites, find a 3/10 and (with a bit of luck) make 50-250 mil.
Been helping someone for a while now who started out mining and hated (the game for) it and every time he gets good loot I go “well you could be mining”.
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False dichotomy fallacy.
Some people already tried LS and it was just not worth their time/commitment. The fact that it CAN happen differently does not mean it did not happens this way with them.
Once I was doing anoms in LS in a drake and someone dropped a carrier on me.
Other people they were mining in LS but kept being harassed and even lost 2 ventures after they changed system several times.
Your inability to imagine viable options only shows how narrow minded you are.
Just because you can’t accept it, does not mean it can’t exist.
How many ded you can find per hour ? How often are they empty ? AFAIK the income is much lower than that. Especially for a beginner with lower scanning skills.
You point out fallacies, and then base your argument entirely on anecdotal evidence from a very limited sample size? Pffft.
Go look at the heat map for jumps in-game. Note how many low-sec areas there are that have single-digit jumps, or even no jumps at all. With a small number of exceptions (that can be easily looked up), low-sec anomaly rats don’t don’t even warp-disrupt. You can simply warp out when someone enters local, and then come back when they’re gone. If you get killed in one of those systems, it means that you aren’t looking at the game, and should have your pilot’s licence revoked.
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Freighters are expensive and easy to kill before CONCORD can intervene. Pilots seem to fit these things for cargo space and no tank, after heavy losses too. People can and should put large collateral fees on the contract.
I am biased though. I mainly have combat SP trained and don’t really see the content in the other stuff like space trucking and mining. That stuff is all a means to an end.
Yes, anectodal evidence is enough to prove argument is wrong.
Do the same in HS.
And then you wait for how long ?
Yeah nice 200M/h when you have to warp off every 5 min.
Bigotry.
You don’t have to warp off every five minutes when you’re in an area that sees a dozen jumps a day, mostly from players passing through in shuttles. You’re just being obtuse and/or ignoring critical aspects of the argument.
3/10, depending on faction, pay 1-300 mil generally and sometimes you get an outlier above that. Anything over 30 mil is “not terrible”, anything over 80 mil is “yeah that’s acceptable”. You could also get nothing of course but that is where the RNG comes in.
If you do just one site it could be all or nothing, if you do like 10 of them then on average you’ll make good money. This means that the real trick is to speed up not only the scanning but also the sites, I see so many people wasting time in these sites looting and salvaging or just doing them poorly or in stupid ships (regardless of being omega or not). Scan quickly, ignore anomalies (unless you have to scan 3+ sigs anyway), learn how to speed run the sites, use a proper ship/fit.
You can do pretty much all 4/10 in about 5-6 minutes, most 3/10 take longer simply due to more pockets and tons of frigates. Some sites you can speedrun avoiding to kill most/all npc in that pocket. It’s a knowledge and mind set thing, not an alpha/omega skill point issue.
Except when it magically sees more jumps after you arrive.
Sounds like I hit a nerve
Actually it sounds like you don’t know how to play the game.
Imagine being so inattentive to your surroundings that someone’s able to drop a capital on your battlecruiser while you’re doing a site.
Because getting caught running low security choke points only happens to other people, right?
I just checked and for the last 8 guristas ded3 I got total 370M estimated. Like 45M/site.
You need to find and complete like 4 sites per hour to reach 200M/h.
If people are paying attention then they will not be caught in Ahb for the simple reason that they will avoid it. It’s very easy to identify it as a problem system, it takes almost no effort.
It’s an OBVIOUS short cut and as such that’s already a red flag in and of itself. Realising this one could quickly check zkill or check the ingame map (or dotlan) to notice that kills happen there 24/7 and come to the conclusion that it’s probably a bad idea.
It’s a very quick and simple “lets not go there”. Some completely newbie might get caught up and nuked (mostly because other people told them to do it) but anyone who’s been in the game for like 2 months could and should know better.
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Seems like good advice. We get three slots per account. That’s enough for a combat character, one for missions/sites and one as a lookout/miner/industrial. More than that sounds like work. To me Multiboxing or, it’s ugly cousin botting, is not playing the game. Sounds more like an obsession.