There are lots of things I do in game that cost me money, I do them because I enjoy doing them or I feel that they need doing. If someone enjoys the idea of doing [insert anything] and they enjoy doing it regardless of the reward for it, then they are playing the game right.
Different people have different goals and drives. What drives me is not what drives others which is probably a good thing. What drives you is probably also not what drives others and that is probably also a good thing. “People should do things just like I do them” is either being incredibly low IQ or being egocentric/narcissistic.
Except I’m not telling other people to do things the way I do them. I only tell them to not do things that have a proven track record of failing to keep players engaged over the long term.
No, I’m telling them that they’re doing the wrong thing.
Even if they want to do PvE/industrial activities exclusively, there are many more choices that would be both more rewarding and engaging than something like doing low-value freighter runs in high-sec, or something like mining Veldspar for that matter.
Of course they’re still free to do it. People don’t have to listen to me. But they’ll be less likely to stay in the game longer if they don’t.
Sure, but it’s a perspective rooted in a significant amount of empirical observation. If you were to interact with these players in the same capacity that I have, you’d likely develop the same perspective.
The root problem with all of this doesn’t even lie with the players, but with CCP. They’ve developed this game with a bunch of absolutely dogshit mechanics and activities, and then shoehorned players into them through an extremely biased NPE. Of course there’s gonna be a huge amount of players that choose to shove spoonfuls of ■■■■ into their mouths. But ■■■■ is ■■■■. Doesn’t mean that we have to defend it just because some players think that what they’re eating is actually chocolate ice cream.
@Haatokka_Oni_Makanen Sounds like you already know what you want to do. To me hauling is more of a headache than it’s worth and the rewards don’t match the risk by far.
It’s also a very expensive career to maintain and I would not suggest it to anyone who plays solo. There are corporations that specialize in Hauling and that’s what one needs to be successful at it or at least offset the costs, a whole organization.
I also like those huge freighters in sci-fi movies but I haven’t seen a game that does them justice.
Yes. If someone comes here and goes “I’m not having fun” while doing boring/menial/semi afk play styles then the answer is probably going to consist of “stop doing boring stuff”. But that is not the case here, HERE it’s “I like doing this this specific play style, in fact I enjoy it so much even my RL job is pretty much that”. Very different.
People aren’t going to admit that very often, because doing so would place the fault on them since they’re the ones who made the decisions that led them to this point.
Much easier to blame gankers for griefing, CCP for not making minerals worth more, etc. etc. People are full of biases, and you have to work around them.
It’s a logical fallacy the moment you rationalize your own feelings, or try to rationalize others’.
Does not mean that it is an issue to start with.
The main reason I was nitpicking about that is, trying to explain everything people like and you disagree with in terms of “invalid logic” is itself fallacious. “your like pineapples but you are not vegan”.
The original context was about how people may not care being paid when the activity is itself interesting, to which was replied that this is a self convincing issue, but the example provided was a wrong one since in that specific case people can be brought to like something for the perceived price attached, and also because the lack of argumentation was more akin to arrogance and bigotry than to discussion. see Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia
You can notice the same fallacious arguments later with the implied “if they don’t say it, it’s because they don’t admit it”. The first premise is already loaded, claiming that people can’t disagree with you without being dishonest, fallacious or whatever. see Poisoning the well - Wikipedia
Sure. But it’s not for us to know which is which unless there’s, perhaps, strong evidence of one over the other. If there is you know I’ll be one of those to call it out but so far (at least) that doesn’t seem to be the case and as such what you’re doing is pretty much a knee jerk reaction that isn’t helping.
Lots of people do things for whatever personal reason they might have. As long as they enjoy it or find it comfortable/comforting while it’s within the spirit, rules and game mechanics of the game then they are doing it right. Regardless of the (lack of) rewards they might or might not care about.
Your “trust me, I have great experience with this, I know” diatribes would have greater impact if you weren’t so obviously and demonstrably full of crap most of the time.
As for “cognitive bias”, when someone always argues only one viewpoint, from one angle, and makes up anything they can on the spot to support that view, as you do… well I think you might be the very definition of the phrase.
You’ve also conflated “why people play games” with “it’s to have fun”. There are many reasons people play games, and ‘fun’ is only one of them.
OP: You’re basically correct. There are many activities in the game that might seem appealing when viewed a certain way, that become a PITA when faced with the need to contend with all the other players whose romantic gameview involves blowing yours up and stealing your lootz.
You seem more than capable enough to google up the various “How to not get ganked in high-sec while hauling” tips, videos and guides. If those processes don’t look appealing to you, try a different track for a while until you gain more perspective. Or even just hang out in the Haulers Channel and see what other people are experiencing.
Players should adopt whatever type of playstyle they want. The reality is that some of the more monotonous activities (mining, hauling) don’t pay as well as some of the higher risk activities. So if ISK/hr isn’t a factor, then owning/operating a freighter can be personally satisfying.
Minerals aren’t worth it because we have bots/multi-boxers running around in 20 ship fleets that flood the market and vastly outperform individual miners.
I’m merely playing the odds. In my experience, players who focus on certain activities (particularly in the PvE realm) often do so because they aren’t aware of alternatives since no one helped them with meaningful advice, and they became too entrenched in their routine to seek them out themselves. They might be “doing it right” because that’s what they truly believe in at the moment, but in the end that will still result in them not staying in the game as long as others who are steered away from certain aspects of the game and toward others. If the goal is only to make the recipients of our advice feel good right now without any regard to the future, then sure, we should simply patronize them and reinforce their current views and ideals. They’ll probably feel really good and warm inside about the “welcoming, helpful community,” but you won’t notice when they’re gone.
No, bots are a minority. A disproportionately efficient minority maybe, but a minority nonetheless.
OP needs to assess how much volume they have if it even warrants a freighter.
ALSO many people use webber alts for freighters too. (to go into warp really fast)
When it comes down to it, an deepspace transport, contracting hauling out, or using a cargo expanded blockade runner works for most people who don’t have a large indy empire.
Freighters/bowheads come with huge amounts of risk. So be careful if you want to get one.