I can only think of one person that has fallen for a scam that involved someone extracting down to 5m sp. Like I said the victim is in my alliance. It was posted on Reddit.
It was literally the same thing as “ISK doubling”.
You misunderstood. I was referring to getting the leverage, which is mostly likely his assets. You can only get those if he hands them over to you in one way or another.
What do you blackmail him for shouldn’t matter. However, how you do it, may make a big difference.
Not necessarily true.
Also the only thing that CCP explicitly targeted with the Bonus Room was that ero had him in Teamspeak and the sound of his distress was given as an example of “real life griefing”… even after he came out and publicly stated that it was all cool.
So if I we’re to obtain something from someone and continue to demand more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more in a “game” where I see how much he’s willing to give up… well there’s nothing wrong with that. The issue would be if I introduce an element that brings this “activity” out of the game and into real life.
When does something in-game start to become “real life griefing”? To some of you SJWs it will be when a target says, “Please stop!” and that something I find ridiculous. We’ve all learned our lessons in that CCP has shown that they are very hypocritical in how they dish out punishment. It used to be cool for you to bring someone in TS and have them sing or do things, but now all someone has to do is pretend they were offended or experienced real life “grief”. I will be sure to send CCP my medical bills for the PTSD I have experienced throughout my time playing this game.
No one holds a REAL gun to your head and you can alt+f4 at any time.
The illegal part is the bit where they has to pay RL money for the extractors.
I think you’ll find that it’s even explicitly covered under CCP’s prohibited scams thanks to Yokai
Even if they potentially could buy them in game because you haven’t emptied their wallet yet unless you make it explicitly ‘get them in game’ you are hitting that potential scam point.
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If all I say is, " extract all your sp and give me the injectors" and they do it… how they accomplish that isn’t my responsibility. I ransomed someone a while back that said he was buying plex with $ to give it to me. I never demanded nor asked for this. I asked for isk.
The key is that I can’t ask or tell someone to open their wallet IRL and buy something to give me. If we’re going at it from your angle then anyone that has ever bought plex to sell for isk can be “protected” under this… “But I bought plex a month ago for isk and this meanie took it from me!!”
Because you’ve created the situation where they feel they have to spend RL cash. And CCP have said it’s not ok to have scam type scenario’s where RL cash comes into the equation. Their wording doesn’t say ‘Told to’, it says ‘Encourages’.
Now yes, this is a new clarification on what sort of Scams aren’t permitted, but given the reaction of the community to said incident that triggered this situation I don’t think you can exactly claim that it’s not what the community wants.
Now if you keep it explicitly in game, & tell them to keep it explicitly in game and they then ignore you and use RL cash, that’s obviously not on your head. But if it’s not explicit and they are in a scam situation like that, especially if you already have their assets, or it’s an unreasonably large expense (Remember per CCP’s graph of player isk, most people have well under a billion isk in their wallet and a lot of people couldn’t afford an extractor at all from their wallets), then it’s on your head.
That was one instance where someone told me they were buying plex to pay (they ended up not paying). I don’t think that just because someone informs me that they are having to use $ to pay the ransom that I should stop the scam and explain to them that I can’t accept a ransom payment in that form.
That leaves you open to being gamed every time you go to ransom, “oh I can pay but I gotta buy plex!”. The only pressure that’s put on them is to pay or die and it’s not my intent to have them spend $ right then for them to pay me. I will admit that it is a slippery slope and I would have to be careful with my words. I think that if it happens again a simple “no” would suffice and then I would continue blowing them up.
The point is that the burden shouldn’t be on me to determine where each ISK of a ransom comes from. If I don’t ask or elude to using $ then I’m fine.
It does now under the revised rules. Well, the second part anyway. Then you can just blow them up though I agree. And I’m not sure what happens if you don’t scam them and they buy with RL money, that probably counts as RL extortion to some degree though so something that should be stayed well away from for RL law reasons.
But yeah, you don’t have to let them go or ‘stop the scam’. Just make sure that you aren’t scamming them of RL money stuff. As for the extractor scam… I’m not sure how ok that would be if you kept it going as a long term chain thing. You can talk about how they aren’t having a gun pointed at them, but mentally you have put them in that sort of situation and are continuing to escalate the situation each time you up the scam. So yeah, keep it up long enough and it does turn into something which isn’t ok.
A once off ‘Do this or I blow you up (or whatever)’ and then you do it anyway, well that’s just EVE.
Think of it from CCP’s point of view: your lengthy explanation of the situation and the scam is just ■■■■■■■■, every player has a story and yours is 4 paragraphs. What the logs will show is some random player GIVING you INJECTORS, for free. Based on the logs, CCP will assume that the injector transfer is the part of RMT that they can see, with the RL cash payment happening through means that they can’t see. You and the scammee will both be banned for illegal RMT transactions involving injectors.
IMO.
It’s always a problem when anybody gives a stranger a large sum of ISK or injectors or PLEX or whatever.
And you can try to put your explanation into the “please unban me” ticket, but the simplest of google searches will show you the success rate of that.
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so youre saying you cant donate injectors to other players because ccp will ban for rmt
wtf
they have a system for donating plex built into the game client
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except it’s not encouraging them to spend $. I am encouraging them to spend ISK. A fake currency.
If my CEO says, “okay guys I need you to skill into Machariels and carriers. We need this done asap!” and I go buy plex to sell for isk to buy injectors only for him to turn around and say a day later, “lol just kidding” is that the same? He has created a situation and put pressure to skill into those ships. It was the players decision to do it that way. Similar to asking for a ransom…
What you have just proposed as a similar example is very very similar to the situation that caused CCP to make the rule explicit in the first place.
I mean if you really want to try and split hairs and then claim innocence go for it, you might even get away with it for a while.
While I wouldn’t put it past CCP to be that short sighted or idiotic, the only situation I can see this happening with is if you happen to ransom a person that actually participated in RMT… otherwise it’s just a ransom.
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Scams that encourage the mark to purchase PLEX in order to acquire the ISK/Items
There is no open encouragement for the mark to purchase PLEX or Extractors with real life cash. The situation created is only intended to take place in-game.
The rule doesn’t go into details and I would imagine that a report of this nature could require a GM to look through logs to determine if the offending parties intent was to Have the mark buy PLEX or Extractors as part of the scam.
it is really easy to solve this.
the fact that there is such a discussion around this topic means that the smartest thing to do is staying away from such activities. it’s a no-brainer. Assuming free will (“it was the player’s decision”) is 100% equal to believing that democracy works and everyone is making a rational decision about who they vote.
■■■■■■■■!
it is absolutely equivalent to assuming that CCP’s marketing (see recent threads) can not ever work, because people have free will and make rational choices, instead of instinct driven ones.
Nonsense!
Reality doesn’t work that way. People rarely behave rationally. There is no rationality behind any argumentation which relies on a person’s choices. Zero. Null. Keine. Anyone who argues with “free will” is someone who knows better and thus tries to trick you, or is a narcisist or egomaniac, who does not realize what influences his decision making process!. when you have to go that route, you will always lose, because the vast majority of people do not make rational choices, simply because no one ever taught them how to not be influenced by their own feelings.
The scammer always has full control over the situation. A well skilled con-artist knows how to pick his targets. it takes a two minute conversation to figure out if the person is trappable. from that point on he already lost the game, because he has no clue about how the scammer games his feelings and how he is being put into a dependency he can not ever get out of, unless he makes the rational decision to pull out!
And that’s the killer:
People do not make rational decisions! It’s like being blueballed. There are A ■■■■■■■ LOT of men, who stick to women who continuously blueball them, because their feelings, created by these women, force them to keep hoping they’ll eventually get laid! they will spend hundreds or thousands for the woman that keeps creating hope in these poor sobs who simply don’t realize how the world works.
Being in the bonus room is the equivalent of being blueballed.
“choice” and “free will” are no argument whatsoever! when you go that route, then for anyone who knows this you will inevitably look like someone who knows this as well, which means there’s people who know that you’re planing to abuse easy minded victims.
have a nice day.
PS: so many typos. this really pisses me off. just stop it. there is literally no where to go, and no way to argue around it, because there’s people around who know their ■■■■ and won’t ■■■■■■■ tolerate it.
/me tips hat.
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Except with the bonus room it was always mark that made himself a mark. The situation was created out of his greed and the scammer would leverage that.
I have ransomed people for 1b. Then I convince them to send me 1b more. Then another 1b. Then they say they have no more and I blow them up… other times they send the 1b and another 500m and realize they’ve been hustled. So just because someone makes themselves a mark doesn’t you’re about to clean them out.
It is entirely of their own willingness to stay and play or pay for a ransom.
It is entirely of their own willingness to stay and play or pay for a ransom.
No, it isn’t. Anyone using this as argument either does not understand how decisions are being made, or understands well enough to try and game the system. I’m not going to accept this silently, because it pisses me the ■■■■ off when people start going that route. it’s seriously abusive and in no way or form a viewpoint which is tolerateable.
People are stupid and instinct driven. if a person sends you more and more money to get out of the situation, then that person did not make any rational decisions what so ever! he made decisions out of desperation! the feeling completely clouds his judgement and forms his logic into the ■■■■■■■■ idea that one day, if he just keeps going, he will eventually get laid!
TL;DR: No!
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Just because it’s not rational doesn’t mean they didn’t make the conscious decision. I’m not saying it wasn’t influenced or persuaded or… inception!
But ultimately it’s their greed or desperation that gets them. The point being I don’t speak the words into his mouth nor did I manipulate this persons body.
Just because you didn’t manipulate a persons body does not mean that you didn’t manipulate and abuse them.
Stop trying to pretend like you aren’t creating the situation to make them do what you want, accept responsibility for it.
This sort of denial is exactly why CCP ended up having to create harder rules, because people kept pushing this sort of victim blaming line further and further while creating deliberate manipulations to ensare their victims.
That’s outright abuse when you perpetuate it, be it physical or mental.
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Stop being silly. I only present a situation and some dialog. The deal is never sealed the instant the scam starts nor as soon as you tug on the baited line. The whole idea behind this is that you create a situation in which the mark believes he can come out on top.
Literally the same mindset is used in properly baiting ships into unfavorable fights. You give them something to hope for or be greedy about and then you expose it. I never said that scamming was a clean and family-fun activity… It’s definitely a darker side of Eve Online that jerks the SJW chain of so many of you.
Nowhere in this process are they forced to do anything. Some people pay, some immediately close the convo, and others cut ties with what they’ve lost.
What literally happens with something like ISK doubling:
- The mark chooses to gamble his ISK for a chance to double it
- The trustworthy ISK doubler doubles the ISK
- The mark, judgement clouded by greed, sends more ISK to be doubled
- The trustworthy ISK doubler decides if it’s time to cash out or see what else can be ha
I am not saying that the Bonus Room didn’t contain elements that were in bad taste or unnecessary in an attempt to “farm tears” or laugh at (people think singing ransoms are funny, right?) but at any stage in any scam the mark is allowed to leave or stop on his own free will. What ends up happening is possibly a thought process like this, “well I’ve already paid 2b… what is 1b more going to hurt if he says I can go free.”… or maybe something like this, “I just gave him 5b and spent the last 30 minutes of my playtime reading a wall of text… what’s another 15 minutes and 1b?”
The scammer is merely trying to present the proper elements needed to complete a scam. The mark is the willing participant though his greed, desperation, ignorance, and/or stupidity and only he can actually make a decision.
The armchair psychology is really cute here.