We tried collapsing the wh in same manner as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujvlLHICEbw
Can’t do it, did CCP make a patch?
We tried collapsing the wh in same manner as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujvlLHICEbw
well wouldnt ya know… lol… wow. oh well.
After petitioning CCP on this matter, CCP wasnt able to directly confirm nor deny the mechanical specifics. HOWEVER, they did emphasize the WH mass limits. We discussed the very detail of the 100mn AB HIC and the mass at 130k metric tons is not able to jump thru a WH where it exceeds the mass limit. The video DOES NOT SHOW the HIC collapsing the WH… CCP said without confirming the specifics, it is a graphical bug in the fitting window. a FRIG wh or ANY wh will not allow a ship to jump with a mass greater than the per jump mass limit. Its common sense and I even argued with a friend about this… but they seemed to know better. So I sent CCP a petition. Ive tried this on sisi and tranq with NO results… except a window saying the wh is too small. IF CCP was aware of this and fixed it, they didnt tell me, which I should assume being they wont actually disclose much detail about stuff like this. WHICH may I say is pretty frustrating.
So yes a HIC can fit thru a frig wh… but it cannot roll it out like typical whs because of the small per jump mass limit.
I suspect your friends know better than to tell you a secret.
Well I was curious… if there was something I was unaware of I wanted to correct that. I was simply arguing the basic mechanics as I currently understand them. If there is a secret that Im not in clue with, then actually it would kinda piss me off CCP saying one thing but then in game, another is occurring. Am I wrong with my assessment? please correct me if I am wrong.
I thought ccp would be able to confirm the mechanics, but they said
"I’m afraid I can’t confirm nor deny if this constitutes an exploit and if the high mass of the ship is taken into account for the collapsing of the wormhole. - This being said, we can at least see that there is a display issue going on."
and this was their reason why…
“The video you linked does not show the wormhole collapsing after the jump so it is not a confirmation that the wormhole was reduced by the increased mass of 138,000 tons.”
I am simply trying to get to the truth of the matter. Being ccp isnt much help, If you know anything in regards please feel free to share Id greatly appreciate it.
This is what Im wondering now… if there is some “secret” that at the end of the cycle there is a window of 5 seconds where you can squeeze in, with the mass increase and fit thru the frig WH but I have not been able to get this effect to happen.
like in this video here, although he is NOT rolling a WH he describes basically what Im guessing at here. Or like the 5 seconds you get with the mwd cloak trick… unintended mechanics… which is WHY I PETITION YOU CCP… but you wont help me out so.
Frigate wormholes are notoriously difficult to roll due to the mass limits and because they regenerate mass. CCP made them a PITA on purpose.
Adding small holes that are difficult to roll was a sort of patch in itself. I think what you’ve identified as a problem is in fact a pretty smart solution to an issue that you may or may not be aware of.
If any hole can be rage rolled by just a handful of people then it’s far to easy for WHers to isolate. Having a little C5 bear hole is not something meant to be easy for only a handful of players to pull off. But installing large holes that are somehow difficult to roll might tilt the balance too far in favor of larger groups. The solution: frig holes!
These little beauties mean that your’re never quite safe placidly ratting away in your bear hole. Sure, nobody can drop a couple dreads on you. However, a couple of T3TDs and a dictor could pop through that hole at any time and inject a little bit of fun into an otherwise lifeless farming operation.
Yes I remember the reasoning behind the FRIG WH… and I still think they are cool… yea man, a fleet of T3D would ruin ones day. I never run sites with a FRIG WH in system. I just wait for the WH to roll out naturally.
It regenerates mass… okay. interesting. I do remember this… but I don’t know any of these details. And tbh it really doesnt matter to me if it regens its lifetime mass.
But again, I dont see my concern being addressed.
I will get back on SISI and test again today, because I get that the EVE community is rather secretive and doesnt like to share stuff like this. This is imho a bad move on CCP part… this favors larger groups of programmers, engineers, hackers, etc… who are then able to use unintended or not, mechanics while everyone else isnt aware of it, sad when you as the DEV guys even they WONT HELP YOU so idk what to say to CCP about that.
Ive asked again and again and again and again… I seem to get the same type of response when asking serious questions, immature answers and an attitude is usually what I get. Not everyone is like this I know but it seems to be the mass majority of this community fits in that sphere of influence imo.
You can ask a simple question to answer yes or no, and you get a line a ■■■■ over and over again. usually attacking the one who is asking the question.
the more I play EVE the less fun it is, the more frustrating it is. Its like, rich people get to eat nice food while poor people eat garbage. Im not arguing the fact that one must save his money, but that money itself is the scam. EVE is ■■■■… its dying and the people who know the secrets who dont share, CCP included, are only hurting the end result. it simply pushes people away. Ive been playing for over 8 years now… I have a it of experience in EVE. Im not an idiot.
I will ask again…
how can a HIC fit in a frig WH with mass that exceeds the per jump mass limit?
lets see if we can just get a straight ■■■■■■■ answer for once. If you sense my frustration, GOOD… Im sure it has happened to you too then.
When you put bubbles up on a HIC, it will reduce it’s mass. Fit multiple bubbles and it has less mass than a frigate.
^ This is the answer right here.
Description of how it works can be found on reddit:
This is the important part:
the mass check limit happens when you click jump wormhole, the reduction of the ships mass happens in the ticks after, which means if you bubble your HIC then wait, turn on the oversized ab, then jump through 1/2 seconds before the bubbles close your ship will pass the mass check but then the mass reduction off the total will be your HIC which is higgs rigged with a 100mn ab thus instead of removing a maximum possible of 5000T from the wh mass total which would require something dumb like 500 passes, it takes off 150,000T and you can roll the ‘small’ wh in like 2 passes.
Yes ofc course… but what you are NOT taking into account is the MASS JUMP LIMIT … no ship can jump thru a wh… with or without bubbles, where the ships mass is greater than the per jump limit.
This seems like a ■■■■ storm mess of opinions and it is NOT helping one bit.
I see where the issue is and I am testing now. The Scary Wormhole guys post says it all…
"I skimmed through the comments here, and if anyone has said anything definitive I missed it, so here is an attempt to help close the book on this one.
Rolling frigate wormholes, per CCP Fozzie is NOT an exploit. CCP is well aware of the mechanics at play here, and while they acknowledge it wasn’t the intended behavior, the fix is more complex than it seems, and they have no intentions ( publicly) of changing the way this works at this time.
The ability to change your mass AFTER the WH has checked if you fit is clearly not intended, but lots of other things in eve fall into that " not intended, but allowed" book, “exploit” is reserved for mechanics that CCP has clearly stated are unintended, negative to the game, and they ware fixing, only the first of which is true in this case.
I have personally asked at Fanfest 2016, and again this year(17), and got the same answer both times. Spouting that it is an exploit doesn’t do anyone any good except further misconceptions about WH space."
All right. Ive done the research I feel is needed to discern the truth of the matter. IDK what you all think or what your experience is, but I WILL SAY, there may be a difference on the SISI server as of today and what WAS on TRANQ… so maybe CCP fixed this or on SISI it wont work. either way. I will test on TRANQ when i see the next frig WH. maybe also to add, the WH id may be a factor. I am testing on a Q008 frig WH to null sec with a 5,000 MT per jump limit and a 20,000 MT per life limit WH.
so my conclusions are. the video is showing a graphical change but is NOT applying it to the WH mass calculator.
the wh did not roll, it did not go reduce after several passes at 4800 MT each… and it will NOT let me thru with mass greater than 5k MT.
I do see the graphical change however on my fitting window when i spam jump and apply the ab at the time as the bubbles come down… BUT THE WH DID NOT ROLL, DOES NOT REDUCE, AND DOES NOT LET ME JUMP IF I SPAN A SECOND OR TWO BETWEEN THE BUBBLES DROPPING AND THE AB APPLYING… !!! I get the repeated conclusions, WH is too small… or I can jump but only 5k MT is being applied…
that said IDK what Im doing differently that the video shown on youtube shows claiming he is ROLLING the wh… HE IS NOT ROLLING THE FRIG HOLE… he is only jumping thru it, like I am able to, with and without the fitting window showing 138,000 MT. thing is as I understand my physics… the math is not being applied to roll or reduce the wh.
lets talk about regen…
frig holes regen mass? IIRC this detail is relevant to FRIG WHs? but IDK any details so … if anyone could or wants to add that would be very helpful! this would explain why Ive made 10 passes at 4800MT each but the WH has not even shrunk gone VOC… Im basically burning back and forth as fast as I can with my HIC with 3 bubbles and my BS AB on… applying 5,000 MT each pass. I have now made about 8 to 10 passes now… the WH should have rolled out.
This isnt a secret… is as I suspected, and unintentional consequence of the current mechanics. CCP has either patched this as of TODAY … because I just proved this does not work and my suspicions were correct. If my “friends” keep secrets … they are not my friends. IDK how you determine friendship but I guarantee you and I have VERY different expectations as to what determines friendship.
That said Im actually pretty pissed at my friend and not because we argued about this. we argue about all kinds of stuff… we are friends IRL so… what I am pissed is how he treated me during our discussion to discern the truth of the matter. which is my only intention here.
Im also pissed ccp wont help and gave me the same level of quality help the help channel does… which is sometimes MORE helpful. but usually I get insulted or whatever. Its jsut really childish. Im just seeking the truth as to how the mechanics are in place so I can understand the game better, thus when someone asks me, I can say, I understand the mechanics and can actually help them. and not point them in the wrong direction. IE setting up for failure.
we dont like blue falcons… no we dont. we like the truth and we respect those who seek it without shitting on their friendships as they insult or resist to make things easy. Im glad I had the time today to get to the bottom of this. IDC what anyone else thinks. Ive tested it, I recorded it, and Its going on youtube… I will post a bug report on the graphical error.
AS FAR I COULD TELL now… anyone who IS rolling a frig wh IS in fact exploiting the game and I will mention this to CCP in the bug report and my petition or support ticket thingy.
I hope this help someone out there.
so to sum it up. Im not getting the same results I have heard other players get when attempting to roll a FRIGATE WH…
the reason is because no wh will allow a ship to pass where it EXCEEDS THE PER JUMP MASS LIMIT if it does, then it is an exploit as far as IM CONCERNED. UNTIL CCP ADMITS THIS IS NOT OR IS AN EXPLOIT I WILL ASSUME IT TO BE ONE.
CCP, a simple ■■■■■■■ yes or no … all you need to do. but thanks anyway for no help.
Rolling frig WHs is not a new thing. It’s known that this has been done and it’s also known by CCP that this exists. Based on that you can simply look at the following link:
Not on the list -> not an exploit (except if it were a newly discovered one, but even then…).
LMAO okay man, whatever you say.
I had asked again in a new ticket and Between the combination of replies I have the solution.
If I were you, whoever … rolling frigate whs in one shot or at all… i wouldnt be doing it. lmao its a known bug, and ccp has yet to declare it an exploit. though they wont say why. they have yet to fix this and it is an unintentional mechanic… thus an exploit by definition. per ccp words themselves.
I will share this though. “Lots of different conversations going on here but just to clarify, any method that results in the mass subtracted from the wormhole to be different from the mass checked when checking the wormholes mass limit is unintended and a bug. We’ve been aware of this issue for sometime but it has not yet been fixed.
At this time I don’t believe we consider this a punishable exploit, but this could always change in the future, fair warning :)”
AND for the record though Im still not sure on one thing, because I have not rolled a frig wh not once, and I have tried. im not sure how you are doing this. Ive tried to replicate the video and have spent hours trying variables with no success…but i care not. I tried to do it, it wont work. and CCP finally gave me what I need to know to see that its unintended… thus an exploit if you do it.
I can get the hic to jump thru the wh with the bubbles coming down and the ab on and the fitting window to show 138,000MT but it DOES NOT ROLL OR REDUCE THE WH. that said though its on sisi… and Im not trying on tranq being it will likely be fixed or declared an exploit. good luck. problem is solved in my book.
Approach it at zero and shout in your loudest most evangelical voice: I am the biggest Space Nerd
The wormhole will be impressed, and will collapse before you.
Thats not true,I seen a fleet of Confessers invade a wormhole through a “frigate hole”. It’s the entering mass not the travel or existing mas that is important.
They used 3 warp bubbles to lighten the mass of the ships entering the wormhole to keep it from collapsing.