Is there any safe way to haul through 0.4 sec?

[Firwyn]

Oftentimes there is a single 0.4 sec area between two high sec areas that need to be passed through in order to sell ores. When plotting my route, even selecting for a safe route there’s no way to avoid this from what I can see at least.

The problem is that people camp those locations. I was paralyzed and couldn’t do anything. I couldn’t warp, I couldn’t move into the gate, etc. It’s one thing for a game to have some risks, but it’s another to force players to have to pass through areas where attackers are allowed to do whatever they want and there’s no way to defend or escape.

Although I have zero interest in PVP, I wouldn’t mind it so much if it was possible to go around such areas, or if it was possible to defend myself, but since neither is possible I don’t know what to do. I didn’t lose any drones, since I always unload what I can when hauling, but I lost my orca, but the loss of implants was the bigger problem since my skill timer increased from 167 days to 200 days.

To add insult to injury I haven’t actually been able to login for well over 6 months due to a combination of bugs that I only just managed to solve and now it seems like I would have been better off not playing at all.

All I want to do is mine and craft. That’s it. Is there any way I can do so safely? Or at least is there any way to defend myself? It doesn’t matter what armor or speed boosts I have if I am not allowed to act at all. It’s not like I could join a company either since all I ever see is spam that’s impossible to sift through.

As a side note: I don’t understand why anyone would enjoy the kind of PVP where there is no challenge and no reward either as the attacker or as the receiver. If there isn’t balance I don’t really see the point. If I was just mining in low sec, or AFK, I’d understand, but I didn’t have any time to react whatsoever which means there’s zero balance from the defending perspective and therefore no skill requires to kill someone which means zero challenge or skill required to play as an attacker. That just seems boring to me.

[Ariel_Kryten]

All of EVE is a PVP zone. You don’t want to lose your ships in low sec? Don’t go to low sec. The simple act of undocking is your automatic consent to PVP. EVE has been like this since day one…

[Ariel_Kryten]

Having said that, if you are still intent on mining or travelling through low sec, use smaller, cheaper ships, such as the Venture or Prospect…

[Ariel_Kryten]

Upon reading your post again, it looks like you need to move to a new area and find another spot to mine in that doesn’t include a high sec island with no way to avoid low sec…

[Scipio_Artelius]

If you haven’t already, on the route planner, set your preferred route to be safer, rather than shorter. In your case, dying in Olettiers, it might have found you a route that stayed in highsec, but was more jumps.

If however you are in a highsec island and can’t avoid lowsec, then some possibilities:

1. contract what you need moved into a courier contract and let someone better equipped, move any goods for you
2. if you are wanting to move an Orca through lowsec, then consider doing it close to downtime and always scout first with another character (alt or friend). Consider using a webbing alt to get you into warp fast and never jump in with anyone else on gate. Don’t warp direct gate to gate. Always scout every grid you are going to land on, before you move there. If you can’t use a webbing alt, fit a cloak and align away (don’t warp initially) and cloak. Slowboat to a safe distance if you need and safe log if you need (grids are huge now, so this is less useful than it used to be), but still helpful. Webbing alts are much better.
3. if you are just moving stuff and don’t need to use the Orca, then use something smaller like a deep space transport and break the cargo up. Then you can use MWD/Cloak trick easier (but still scout) or a blockade runner

[Giddy_McFee]

If you live in a high sec island (ie high sec surrounding by low sec which i suspect you do if there is no direct high sec route with safer option turned on) then you could…

1: move your operation so there is nothing but high sec between you and where you sell stuff
2: train scanning skills in the hope of finding a direct hgh sec to high sec wormhole that you can get yur ship out on,
3: use a smaller ship that is fit appropriately
4: contract your stuff to someone to move (but that will cost you ISK)
5: have an alt or a corpmate (if you are in a corp) to scout you through.

If you a jumping an orca blind into a low sec system, then it is just a killmail waiting to happen

on a side note, whilst you may not understand or enjoy (or indeed want) that kind of PVP, this is what can and does happen in EvE, it is just a different style of play to yours but this is the game.

[Gerard_Amatin]

I’ve seen a few tips on how to stay alive while moving the ore from your high sec island to other high sec.

Here’s some more:

Instead of hauling the ore in your Orca, which are easily caught, you could pick a much more safer ship to haul with:

• Blockade Runners (impossible to be caught, if piloted well.)
• Prospect/Endurance (mining frigates with ore hold, can carry a little more than blockade runners. Hard to catch)

Sure, they can fit a lot less ore than your Orca, but that’s why you put a compression module on your Orca so you can turn the ore into a much more compact form to haul it back.

Next, if you insist in hauling in your Orca, I still wouldn’t jump through the sole 0.4 on an important route as you can be sure it is camped, but there is an alternative:

• Filaments. It’s some trouble, and you’ll have to read up more about them, but if you bring the right filaments and a cloak for your Orca, you can get it to high sec in almost complete safety (I don’t know if it’s possible to get it back to your high sec island though to continue operations, that depends on whether there is a Pochven system within a few lightyears of your island.)

[Clone_Nr007]

This post is a response especially to @Firwyn only so if you reply to it and you’re not Firwyn then it’s my pleasure to ignore you.

@Firwyn

Is there any safe way to haul through 0.4 sec?

No.

@Firwyn

Oftentimes there is a single 0.4 sec area between two high sec areas that need to be passed through in order to sell ores

That’s how the game artificially creates player interactions. It’s forced, ie: non-consensual.

@Firwyn

When plotting my route, even selecting for a safe route there’s no way to avoid this from what I can see at least

No, there isn’t any way to plot any course that would avoid having to pass through gatecamped systems if you’re not in Hisec, any sec below HighSec is open season on solo players.

@Firwyn

The problem is that people camp those locations.

Yes. EVE needs to have those bottlenecks so players can lose the ships and modules and implants that they pay for so dearly in personal Time and efforts, and not least of which in taxes.
Just the steep costs of taxes is enough to disgust someone from this game.

@Firwyn

I was paralyzed and couldn’t do anything. I couldn’t warp, I couldn’t move into the gate, etc

That’s the idea.
If you hadn’t been paralyzed Fight or Flight would’ve happened ( simple psychology ) and things may then have been interesting but why give you that choice when the end game is for players to lose what they worked for and paid to get?

@Firwyn

It’s one thing for a game to have some risks

There are always risks, in real life and online and in a game…

• In real life anything can happen at any time: You can get run over by a truck and die, get into an accident that paralyzes you or, if you live in a country that doesn’t dance on Washington’s Two-Step, you may get blown up by a drone.
• Online thieves can steal your identity and empty your bank account, you may get stalked by a lunatic or get a virus that’ll render your PC completely useless.
• In EVE you may get scammed or insulted, lose those ridiculously expensive implants, be accused of cheating and get banned…

But the sort of “risks” in EVE is totally one hundred percent on the side of the one who gets caught in one of those gate killing fields.

@Firwyn

but it’s another to force players to have to pass through areas where attackers are allowed to do whatever they want and there’s no way to defend or escape

Yes, that’s called Abuse.

@Firwyn

I wouldn’t mind it so much if it was possible to go around such areas

No can do. The entire game is based on that Abuse.

@Firwyn

or if it was possible to defend myself

Nope. Once caught in a Gatecamp or in an Ambush ( they call that “gank”, as if it’s not a stupid slang word for “gotcha” ) the only thing you can do is close the game.

@Firwyn

but since neither is possible I don’t know what to do

Don’t fly anything over a destroyer with cheap modules and no implants unless you’re in a corporation that engages in war.
With buddies to fleet with and learn from, in a strong corporation and alliance.
Otherwise stay in Hisec and do missions.
Mining is for players in corporations that can protect them.

@Firwyn

but the loss of implants was the bigger problem since my skill timer increased from 167 days to 200 days

Yes, don’t buy expensive anything unless you have some friends to defend you and help you scout head.
Don’t spend a cent until you join a corporation otherwise see your time and isk circle down the drain day after day.

@Firwyn

now it seems like I would have been better off not playing at all

You would’ve been better off not to use that Orca until you had friends to help you.

@Firwyn

All I want to do is mine and craft. That’s it. Is there any way I can do so safely?

No.

@Firwyn

Or at least is there any way to defend myself?

No

@Firwyn

It doesn’t matter what armor or speed boosts I have if I am not allowed to act at all

Exactlly. That’s why until you’re in a corporation with friends in support you should only fly cheap ships with cheap modules and no implants whatsoever.
Everything is SO expensive in this game, why would you waste your time and isk in endeavors that can only end in losses?

@Firwyn

It’s not like I could join a company either since all I ever see is spam that’s impossible to sift through.

Scams and Ambushes. EVE in a nutshell.

And good luck finding a good corporation, one that will support you and open more of the game for you. Most are 3-alt operations or they recruit you to pad their numbers and profit from your labor.
A good corporation only accepts players with high SP ( over 10mil ) and some knowledge of PvP.
Rookies can smarten up and do what’s suggested in this post or keep losing implant/modules/ship to a game designed to do just that.

@Firwyn

As a side note: I don’t understand why anyone would enjoy the kind of PVP where there is no challenge and no reward either as the attacker or as the receiver.

Just the idea of blowing up a ship that has a REAL person’s character in it is enough to harden someone’s wood. Then if the ambushed player starts mouthing off then it’s salt on top of a hard-on.

@Firwyn

If there isn’t balance I don’t really see the point

Money, profits…

@Firwyn

If I was just mining in low sec, or AFK, I’d understand, but I didn’t have any time to react whatsoever which means there’s zero balance from the defending perspective

That’s the general idea. I call it the sittin’ duck move.

@Firwyn

therefore no skill requires to kill someone which means zero challenge or skill required to play as an attacker

PvP 1 on 1 requires game skills and knowledge.
Gatecamps and Ambushes only require more friends.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Clone_Nr007

No can do. The entire game is based on that Abuse.

Feel free to ignore me, but if you consider it ‘abuse’ when other players shoot at your spaceship, why are you playing a MMO that’s all about spaceship battle against other players?

Maybe ‘abuse’ is the wrong word there, did you mean ‘core gameplay’ perhaps?

[Tipa_Riot]

Orca is not a hauler. As said before by others use something suitable for travel through dangerous places if you really must do. Players do that all day not dying to camps using Blockade Runners or the cloak/MWD trick.

But best is not to risk that at all, especially not through lowsec choke points where players wait all day to play Darwin on ignorant players. Move you area of operation is probably a good idea.

This game is very well balanced, there is always a counterplay. For gatecamps these are being nimble or going around. BTW the campers are there for the loot and shiny killmails. So it can be very profitable.

A being not interested in combat attitude will not bring you far in EvE, even as prey you have to understand the basic mechanics to survive and make a profit. Anyway all is PvP in EvE, especially mining/industry as you are competing against other players who might not like that …

EDIT: just now checked the killmail, you didn’t run into a camp but you were tackled by a hunter killer and hot dropped in a targeted operation to kill your Orca. So traveling in anything cloaky would have avoided that loss.

[Xeux]

@Firwyn

I have zero interest in PVP

Why have you chosen to play Eve? This game is notorious for being a PvP game, not a crafting game.

[Ariel_Kryten]

Because they want EVE to be turned into something it’s not and never has been…

[ISD_Drew]

Couple self-study resources for you below, you basically have a few options:

• pay others to move items using courier contracts
• learn how to navigate low security space (gate check, use a scout, etc)

Can solve both of these by joining a Player Corporation which focuses on industry and likely can help with both of these items.

https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Safety_Tips_for_Operating_in_Low_Sec

https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Hauling

https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Contracts#Courier_Contract

[Clone_Nr007]

@ISD_Drew

Can solve both of these by joining a Player Corporation

@Firwyn ISD Drew summed it all up for us. EVE is to be played with other players and against other players. It is not a solo-type game.
It can be played solo but that’s like climbing the Everest alone.

[Davidius_Pratticus]

Another thing you can do is set warp-to points 150-200Kms off the Gates in the Losec system, and warp to those and cloak up upon landing. When the coast is clear, you can jump the gate.

[Inaishite_Teikei]

You are not “forced” to do anything. You take the risk, you get the rewards. You don’t want to take the risk, you have to do something else. If you just want to mine and craft in absolute guaranteed safety, this game might not be for you (and that’s okay, everyone has their own gaming tastes!).

You can haul through dangerous systems, there are specialized industrial ships for that. Whining about piracy taking zero skill (not true btw) will get you nowhere and will be met with derision. It’s an essential part of the game from its inception and you’ll have to learn to deal with it, take precautions, manage risks etc. - this is where the challenge and the fun are!

[Pierre_de_Bricassart]

Look, you have to imagine you are piloting a stagecoach filled with juicy goods in the wild west 150 years ago. What precautions do you take? Don’t go via Dreadful Gulch, for a start. Perhaps choose a settling area with nice neighbours and a secure link to a trade hub. Or hire some gunmen and be the cattle baron himself.
You cannot play EVE without interaction, it’s an MMO. And by the way, you need other players to buy your stuff - and build ships for fighting other players.

[Litsea_Reticulata]

@Firwyn

All I want to do is mine and craft.

Mine, craft and then sell it on a market?

@Firwyn

To add insult to injury I haven’t actually been able to login for well over 6 months due to a combination of bugs that I only just managed to solve and now it seems like I would have been better off not playing at all.

Just wait until CCP updates the QT libs on the launcher again and breaks all the old apple devices again.

@Firwyn

It’s not like I could join a company either since all I ever see is spam that’s impossible to sift through.

Yeah that is a problem, but if you are a corp where people are spamming the main channel, its not a corporation worth staying in.

@Firwyn

As a side note: I don’t understand why anyone would enjoy the kind of PVP where there is no challenge and no reward either as the attacker or as the receiver.

You have stuff. Blowing you up makes your stuff my stuff. For free.

@Firwyn

That just seems boring to me.

If you ever lost a $20, note, yeah, it stinks, but to the person who finds it, that’s a free lunch.

@Firwyn

Oftentimes there is a single 0.4 sec area between two high sec areas that need to be passed through in order to sell ores.

Have to admit the CCP map generation algorithm does have some oddities like this, which really aught to have been fixed ( it makes no sense why the empires would have insecure supply lines) back at generation, but this is how thing are now and people are too stubborn to change things.

@Firwyn

I didn’t lose any drones, since I always unload what I can when hauling, but I lost my orca, but the loss of implants was the bigger problem since my skill timer increased from 167 days to 200 days.

Mass of carried goods has no bearing on the piloted ship’s ability to manoeuvre, which makes no sense but that is just how things are.

@Firwyn

That’s it. Is there any way I can do so safely?

Yes, though be aware whatever sacrifice is being made for safety, comes at a restriction in what industry can be done ( no capitals in high security space, no moon reactions ) and a very significant hit to efficiently. Almost anything you can think to do in high security space can be done as efficiently, if not more so, than more risky locations.

@Firwyn

When plotting my route, even selecting for a safe route there’s no way to avoid this from what I can see at least.

Its already been mentioned to get a blockade runner, though a slight twist would be to get a blockade runner, a covert cyan pilot and a black ops battleship. Just bridge/conduit jump the blockade runner into the 0.4 at a deep safe, then warp to the out gate.

[Dr_Noknow]

@Clone_Nr007 Interesting post.
What do you mean when you use the word “Abuse”? There are different kinds of abuses…
I agree with you on the prices of items and taxes. It’s horrendously expensive. 2,000,000 for a skillbook is theft.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Dr_Noknow

2,000,000 for a skillbook is theft.

Only 2 million for a skill book? That’s spare change.

I guess you haven’t looked at the gas huffing skillbook yet? Or better, capital and supercapital ship skillbooks?