Isnt it finally time to NERF Incursions?

(Faylee Freir) #203

What is terrible about highsec incursion mechanics? Can you elaborate?

I think if you bothered to look at the data available to us from CCP you will find that incursion payouts are actually in a good place, compared to say… bounty payouts.

I know you’re probably to lazy to educate yourself, so I Google’d it for you. Here’s the monthly economic report from September 2017:

So the biggest issues I see is that lowsec has a very small slice of the incursion payout pie. That likely has way more to do with the actual state of lowsec rather than an inherent issue with incursions.

Highsec incursions are really fine in my opinion.

(Teckos Pech) #204

Uhmmm…isn’t the bonus structure you are suggesting working in the opposite manner though?

There is no evidence to support this contention.

(Zetakya) #205

Rorquals do not generate ISK; they generate Ore, and burn Heavy Water, but they do not create ISK ex nihilio in the way that bounties do.

(Buoytender Bob) #206

Doesn’t matter, the huge fleets in delve (as you well know) generated over 12,533 Billion (!) Isk last month. Bounties for Delve at the same time was 7,877 Billion isk, an incredible amount, but it pales when compared to mining. WIith you being a member of the group that is raking in such huge numbers, I understand the need to deflect away from the issue when it is brought up. However, this thread is about Incursion and the ISK it produces, even if that number is merely a tiny fraction of Rorquel/mining fleets production.

(Zetakya) #207

Incorrect. Mining in Delve generated 12.533 bn ISK worth of ore. It did not generate any actual ISK. Mining is a deflationary activity, Ratting is an inflationary one.

The difference is essential when talking about ISK faucets and ISK sinks.

(Dinsdale Pirannha) #208

OK, clown.
You want to talk about ISK faucets:
goons, just in Delve alone, created 7.9 trillion in ISK last month.
Or, roughly the same as ALL incursions in the entire game generated.
Or, more bounties than ALL of high sec combined.

So please, just shut up.

(Frostys Virpio) #209

You keep calling us a Cartel, we have to go with your presentation…

(Teckos Pech) #210

No, a more accurate statement is they generated over 12.533 Billion ISK worth of ore/minerals. The difference is that generating ore and sellling it to others is a transaction that makes both parties better off, whereas bounties simply inject additional ISK into the game and as a result it reduces the purchasing power of ISK that already exists and transfers it to the ratter.

So the ore can have distributional effects, but it has little to no effect on inflation.

No, you are just simply wrong. Producing something has a real effect. Increasing the money supply has a nominal effect and can have real effects too. Further, allowing too much ISK creation can have a deleterious effect on the economy via inflation.

Mining does not result in ISK creation, the mining and selling of ore re-arranges who has the ISK, and the acts of refining and other uses for that ore probably leads to ISK destruction.

This is not a Goons/non-Goons thing, you are just simply wrong in your understanding of how the monetary base in the game works.

(Zetakya) #211

I see you are continuing with your longstanding tradition of “grr gons, hat gons”.

I assume that the number you reference is Ratting bounties? (I don’t actually go out and shoot little red pluses for money, so I don’t pay attention to that part of the economic report).

If so, then yes; that’s an ISK faucet. By all means turn it off; it’ll only make me richer.

(Teckos Pech) #212

Well, sure. If we turned off all ISK faucets we’d see economy wide deflation. And if large enough it could be bad too. We’d get richer just doing nothing other than not spending our ISK.

(Salvos Rhoska) #213


(Nevyn Auscent) #214

Where did you find the lowsec/nullsec/highsec breakdown of incursions in that report. I can’t see that graph

(Faylee Freir) #215

Oops you’re right. Evidently I misread the bounty graph that breaks it down into different categories: high, low, and null and mistook it for incursion payout.

It would be interesting to see, but I can only imagine that highsec incursion payouts make up for the majority of the isk… You could say it might would be fair to compare it to bounty payouts, which would almost certainly be made up mostly of Nullsec ratting, and compare how incursions are paying out vs ratting.

(Mina Sebiestar) #216

Elephant in the room


High sec is to blame.

(Nevyn Auscent) #217

There is a group doing mostly full time low sec, which is 50% larger fleet so my guess is low sec is 10-20% of payouts, but yeah, I’d be interested to see how close my guess is to reality some time.
Well, last time I bothered paying attention to incursions there was a group that was running for months doing that anyway.

(Faylee Freir) #218

Hm that’s interesting. Yeah I would love some more in depth #s

(Deunan Tenephais) #219

Bounty Prizes are in orange.
Incursion is in red.

The numbers for Delve are third from the top.
NPC Bounties are in brown.
Mining is in yellow.

That’s some heavy pve being done here.

As an aside, seeing how much Jita dwarfs every other part of the game with it’s trade amount we can deduce Jita is not mainly a Trade hub, but a speculative one.

(March rabbit) #220

I’m curious why both The Forge and Delve have almost no net export?

I can imagine goons importing, building and hoarding stuff in Delve.
But The Forge? People buy stuff in there to move to other places. How is it zero?

(Deunan Tenephais) #221

There is the Destruction column, it’s part of it.
The rest is part of the speculative process I already underlined, it goes to Jita and stays in Jita to be used as speculative support.

A “hoarding” effect, more or less fluid between hoarders.

(Teckos Pech) #222

Who cares? The entire notion of balance of trade has probably resulted in more time wasted than just about anything else ever invented. And time wasted by people who could have done so much more if they stopped worrying about the balance of trade.

People have been trying to put a stake through the heart of this particular vampire since 1776, but it is extremely difficult to kill.