Isnt it finally time to NERF Incursions?

(Frostys Virpio) #183

I meant finish the site, not clear everything from grid. My choice of word was bad.

The problem is you would have to bump the majority of the fleet to really prevent hem from generating income. If you are willing to waste your own and at least a few other people’s time, you could do it. You will need a few bumping battleship, a logi wing and I would suggest some to include some cap transfer over what your logi need to work as if your fleet get targeted by neuting enemies on field, they will shutdown every active mods you have running quite fast.

The reason this is not being done is because it’s relatively harder and it pays less in every imaginable way than pretty much every other activity in EVE. There ae better way to antagonize others in the game than trying to bump a Machariel enough to mess up his tracking while his 39 buddy still complete the site laughing at he bumpers for barely having an impact on their income.

People who want to play the “ass-hole” in this game already do so in a practical way. Messing with incursion sounds cool until you figure out what it actually require to have and impact and then they just turn to other activity because the effort is too high for the reward.

(yellow parasol) #184

i’m glad more people begin to see this.

Thanks for pointing out what’s wrong with the people in this game. not saying you’re wrong about the work (!) that’s needed in comparison to the satsifaction (!) that can be gained.

(Frostys Virpio) #185

What’s wrong with people putting their effort into activity with better returns in term of ISK, fun, tears or whatever? It’s a sandbox so they are all free to choose. If “sticking it to the incursion runner” isn’t really high on their list, the bad return on every other imaginable category will of course steer people toward other activities. If you think there is something wrong with that, then you have something against the idea of sandboxes.

(yellow parasol) #186

… okay, sure, you’re right.

(Frostys Virpio) #187

If you have other point of view to show, you will have to actually put effort into it and describe them better.

(yellow parasol) #188

I have, but it’s not worth wasting my time writing it, because it’s completely irrelevant and fruitless anyway. there are far better uses for my time, than trying to help you understanding things. there’s no point in doing something that doesn’t actually benefit me, or costs me more than i can gain.


(Frostys Virpio) #189

GJ, you are playing the life sandbox like an adult. I’m happy to have made realize this.

(yellow parasol) #190

To quote Tippia:

That ringing in your ears you’re experiencing right now, is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear, as it got thoroughly PULVERIZED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds.

Have a nice day, knowing you’re locked out of understanding a world where people don’t need to be slaves to their lower instincts.

(Frostys Virpio) #191

Man is it fun to keep you posting on a thread you said you would leave because it’s not worth wasting your time on.

You are a good source of entertainment right now btw since it’s a slow day a work.

(yellow parasol) #192

Congratulations. i’m happy i could brighten your miserable life just a tiny bit. :slight_smile:

(Forseti Valkyrie) #193

Incursions, just like virtually every other PVE activity is calculated to have a ~limited ISK per hour… whether it’s mining, carrier ratting, missions, or incursions…

All of the above have entry-level amounts and also all of the above have bitter-vet amounts. The bitter vet amounts are not really exponentially higher per hour, yet are still noticable.

HOWEVER the bitter-vet ISK per hour requires higher end ships, higher end mods, higher end implants, higher end skills. ALL of which amount to 5-10 Billion ISK, depending on the PVE trade.

You can easily lose a ship in an incursion. You can easily lose a carrier to rats and your Rorq to rats, blops or by not paying attention to local. It takes a LONG time to replace any of those, even entry-level ships/mods.

You should expect reward for large amounts of investment, both ISK and time especially. I admire those who can carrier rat for 8-10 hours. I start crying after about 2 hours and asking if Eve is really worth it.

Bottom line though, if you put in the time and effort, you should be rewarded for it, otherwise what is the point of playing a game at all?

(Salvos Rhoska) #194

For a bit of a tangent, for comparison:

DED total site profits have dropped dramatically over the last few years due to the saturation in the market of the module drops. Id estimate at least 50% for lowish end deadspace loot over the last two years.

For me, this was significant as it used to be a large part of how I made my isk. As the value of the modules dropped, and PLEX rose, it became not worth it especially considering long unlucky RNG streaks + time to find sites.

In comparison, Incursions sidestep this and remain as lucrative and reliable as ever (allowing for isk inflation and the limited flow of CONCORD LP due to restricted amount of Incursions).

I suppose, in terms of Incursions, that is a success in design, as it has kept Incursions populated as “sustainable” content throughout the years.

I dont really have a point, just wanted to raise this as something to consider regarding what, if anything, should be done to Incursions.

(Frostys Virpio) #195

It’s only as lucrative as it used to be if your cost stayed the same. If you ran incursion to PLEX your account, your returns got lower because you need more sites than you used to.

(Salvos Rhoska) #196

Is your issue with the term “lucrative” or?

Whether you PLEX or sub does not change the Incursion payout.

That was the point of my post, that Incursion payouts, unlike DEDs for example, have remained constant (deadspace module prices have plummeted over last two years due to saturation).

In this sense Incursions are infact a success of CCP design, as they are constantly populated even after years, and have generated communities around running them.

Since there is only ever a set number of Incursions running, the CONCORD LP influx also remains largely stable. Sure, there is theoretically also a constant amount of DEDs, but their location is not broadcast and value is determined by RNG.

(Nevyn Auscent) #197

Except they haven’t. Incursions have been nerfed quite a few times. The fact that people are turning out the isk / hour they are these days is the result of ubber blinged fleets and years of optimising technique.

(Salvos Rhoska) #198


So how much has Incursion payout dropped from timeframe x to timeframe y?

(Nevyn Auscent) #199

Go back to old MER’s from 2014/2015 region.
Incursions used to turn about 12 Trillion a month as a fairly regular thing.
Currently they are turning a steady 8-9 Trillion a month

There have also been significant changes to the VG’s which were the most lucrative sites that caused them to become significantly slower.

(Salvos Rhoska) #200

Oki then.

Nonetheless, if I understand you correctly, the payout has not been changed, just time for completion increased.

(Nevyn Auscent) #201

I believe that’s true for VG’s, if you regard payout as a per site statistic. Scouts had some changes, but are still useless because there is so much ECM in them that they are useless except for blings gangs of Marauders basically, and if you can run that you can run the more lucrative sites.
Technically Low/Null sec incursions had a 50% buff per site since the number allowed in fleet got increased by 50%.

Of course the same could be said for the null sites they added some elite frigates into, if anything that ‘increased’ payout’.

But when it comes to income, most people don’t count on a per site basis, but on a per time basis.

(Crimson Draufgange) #202

I agree with @Persifonne. Incursions definitely need a change. Would be great to see them removed from high sec completely, and add a huge bonus to running them in low sec, even bigger bonus than null. Would make sense lore wise as well. Closer an incursion is to empire, the more you should get for trying to stop it.

The current high sec incursion mechanics are terrible right now though. Like OP said, high sec incursions are ruining the economy. Not even gonna mention null sec botters.