Jaguar to Strong

(Sexy Talvanen) #1

I think the jaguar is to strong. Its a nice brawler but to many people use it like a ceptor. The Jaguar is pretty fast thats no secret. But the huge problem is that you can get it easly to 3km/s cold and a good tank. You need Interceptors V to get a lower sig than a Jaguar. And the Jaguar resistances are to good for the speed and sig. The 5 mids makes it not better. The Jaguar can nearly chatch everything with his speed can hold it for a few minutes.

I would put the resistances to 50 40 40 50 like many Minmatar T2 Ships and reduce the mid slots to 4.
It should get 15m³ drone cargo.
With these changes it becomes less tanky than a hawk but faster. It has the same dps Like the hawk but you can shoot the drones.

(Maekchu) #2

Psh… 3km/s. Those are some rookie numbers.

Malediction for life!

(Zachri) #3

to /= too

(Abruzzi Oskold) #4

What ship did you lose to a Jag?

(Sasha Viderzei) #5

I am currently learning solo PVP in Wolf.
Messing around in TEST space yesterday, catching ceptors sleeping on gates and getting my first kills/salt comments in Local.

Then this Jaguar meet me on a gate. Let’s try ! I get in range, scrap him and start pew pewing with my smol ACs, doing few damage to his shields. He scram me and try to kite my ship, plundering my armor while I switch to Barrage ammo, which he can easily repair.

Since I’m new to PVP, I think that fight is lost and simply disengage, learned later that Jaguar are quite hard to kill and all. So yeah, not complaining, was happy to piss off VNI bots and all :slight_smile:

A question for the PVP veterans : that Wolf was sitting at ~6km from my ship (in second falloff). What could I have done to close the distance since I couldn’t use my MWD ? Also, what ammo is generally more useful against Minmatar ships ?

Thanks in advance !

(Anderson Geten) #6

explosive vs armor T1, em vs shield T1, kinetic vs T2

(Mizhir) #7

The Wolf’s biggest weakness is that it can’t dictate range against a brawler, since it only has 2 mids. Against other kinds of targets it’s normally not an issue and even against softer targets it can still either push them off or break their tanks despite being in deep falloff. However a Jaguar is a strong brawler with a strong sustained tank so in this case it simply counters the wolf. In general the Jaguar is among the top for Assault frigates and in Assault frigate 1v1s it will come on top in most cases.

So there is not much you can do against a jaguar as a wolf since it’s a counter to your ship, just like the wolf counters laser ships or VNIs with EM drones.

Regarding ammo. First of all you need to predict if the fight will be on close range or not. You did the right thing by switching to Barrage. Here is a graph that displays a Wolf (using Suitonia’s fit) with close range ammo (EMP, PP, Fusion) in blue and a Wolf with barrage in orange:
So depending on the ship you will fight you can sort of predict which range the fight will be at. In this case the Jaguar fights at 7+km range since it doesn’t lose dps to being at range but can mitigate some of your damage.

Secondly there is damage types. t1 armour ships tend to have an explosive/kinetic resist hole so in most cases Fusion will be best, even in some cases where they plug the hole. Against t1 shield ships they tend to have EM and Thermal holes so EMP is best. Agaisnt t2 minmatar ships they have high EM and Thermal resists so Fusion is often the best choice, however Phased plasma is better against some shield tanked t2 minmatar ships. Hail is mostly for fighting bigger targets.

(Sasha Viderzei) #8

Thanks mate !

(PI farmer1) #9

You can easily pull at least 4000m/s cold in a jag, you haven’t trained your skills to 5 yet

(Will Riraille) #10

Okay, but where’s that mid you dropped going to go now that it’s not a mid anymore? You can’t just straight nix a slot on the Jag; unlike the Ishkur it has no drone bonuses (nor the overall drone bay) to justify the lack of a slot compared to the other AFs.

So where is this dropped mid going to go? To the high slots? Two utility highs… well that sounds like it would be very potent with the right fit, and it’s still a very fast, fairly tanky brawler. Do we give it an extra launcher hardpoint? Well if we did that we might as well strip out the drones entirely, since otherwise it likely out-DPS’s the Vengeance and Hawk.

What if we drop into the lows? Oh dear, we’ve only made it faster, and probably it’s still about as tanky and as killy.

It should be noted that most of the ‘frontliner’ combat ships for the Minmatar T2 line have 75/60 EM/therm resistance for their shields. Primarily it’s pure support and other more specialized ships- EWAR, 'ceptors, T2/3 destroyers (which are specialists and anti-tackle/-support boats)- that have the reduced profile, which comes in three main varieties; 50/40 EM/therm for support/specialists, 62.5/50 EM therm for Recons, and the grab-bag basically-nothing variety that is used for 'ceptors, covops, and T2 battleships.

Note that the Scimitar is unique in that it is a support/specialist ship which uses the full 75/50 profile instead of the reduced 50/40.

The Jag is clearly not a support/specialist ship, so using the 50/40 EM/therm profile doesn’t make much sense.

(Sexy Talvanen) #11

was looking on Pyfa all 5 and had 2 tank rigs in it. Yeah you can pimp the jag to 4km/s but then you lossing tank etc.

(Sexy Talvanen) #12

Didn’t notice that minmatar have special for each ship typ. But yeah makes sense then. You could move the mid to high + Launcher slot. Atm the thing is that you have same mids like a hawk more lows and a higher speed. With the extra High you can fix the damage problem on the jag and the utility or tank get lower. The jaguar is an hard counter to every armor tanked assault frig because you have the utility to pull range and play in fall off. Wolf, Vengeance, Ishkur and Enyo get a better chance agains the jaguar then. The Retribution is still bad agains the jaguar but that okay. With nearly every assault firg you have to choose between Prop Mod, Scram and Cap Booster or Prop Mod, Scram and Web. Only the Hawk and Jaguar can fit every thing and still have a gret tank.

(LouHodo) #13

LOL You must of lost to a Jag… they aren’t that good. Just wait till you run into Wolf.

No offense but 3km/s is SLOW for any frigate. LOL my Probe does 3.6km/s and my Breacher does 4km/s unheated.

And Minmatar ships are versatile so dont change its slot layout at all.

(Val en Thielles) #14

Jaguar is somewhat tailored for solo, so it is natural that it should outperform other assault frigates in 1v1 matchups, which perform better in groups. It has a bonus for active tank, few low slots, many mid slots, low DPS split between drones and launchers. What you have here is a ship that can be its own logistics and tackle, but one that does not stack up very well in groups. In comparison the Wolf lacks the control or long range damage to be very efficient at solo, but with all its low slots can get good damage output and an extensive buffer tank that can be supported by logistics. Jaguar can still perform the hard tackle role in a group, but still that’s a thing it does by itself.

Not to say Jaguar fleets can’t be a thing or Wolf can’t be flown solo, but in the end some ships are going to be better for some things.

That’s only because of the resists and it is pretty good for nearly everything else.