Jumping fatigue is our freedom. Do not touch it

Communications Center General Discussion
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I’ve always (mostly) flown in lowsec. And I remember back in the days when I flew in Khanid/Kor-Azor, we’d have NC. harassing us with supercap drops all the time. They were never very good at it, and they rarely caught us. Maybe one in five drops they would catch us. The embarrassing part for them, was, that they’d lose something (usually an expensive cyno ship) to us almost 8 out of 10 drops. The first one was a 2 billion isk cyno Pilgrim. It was hilarious.

So the small corp I was in (I think literally only about six of us) had some pocos there, and one had come under attack, and we were heading out to it. I was in a Scorpion loaded with ECM and neuts, and some other secrets. I was the biggest ship in our fleet, which meant I was the slowest, and I was lagging behind. At our last jump, a Pilgrim that had been tailing us waited for me to go through the gate, and came through with me. Everyone else had already warped off on the other side.

I knew he was going to grab me and drop supercaps, so I held cloak on the other side, I right clicked on a nearby planet, and hit ‘align to’ while I immediately started locking up the Pilgrim as soon as he appeared. But I didn’t jam him right away.

I waited. Until not one, but about half a dozen supercaps were on grid. Then I hit all my jams, broke point, and warped off, and everyone in local laughed at the dumb dumbs who just wasted all that fuel and jump fatigue timers on nothing.

When they jumped out, the Pilgrim was still on gate, on an active cyno, with no logi, just sitting there tanking sentries. So we went back and killed it. One carrier came back to try to save him but he was way too late.

Anyway, funny somewhat related story that I felt like telling. I’ll be off now. Moral of the story is, NC. are bad.

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Do not remove the fatigue, that’s the only thing that prevents powerblocks to drop caps and by they way… to jump bridge’s your fleet in their systems

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What you all have failed to understand is that fatigue means nothing if we (powerblocks in general) want your space, it may take us a few more days to get into position but the fact remains, if we want your space we will take it, fatigue means nothing to a larger alliance with literally thousands of pilots at hand to absorb the fatigue required to move cap fleets, nobody that I know of has only one cap pilot per cap as that’s not efficient.

The only thing that fatigue has helped that I can think of was blops for lulz, I’m not saying I haven’t stopped my corp from dropping caps on a single frig for teh lulz but we don’t do it as much as we used too.

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@alea I don’t think anyone is arguing that big null sec powers can’t evict smaller corps at any time. However jump fatigue does add a cost that may dissuade many

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Has a change been announced or proposed to jump fatigue mechanic?

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Really, well we had PL decide that they wanted our space when they were deployed in Curse, so they gave us four days to leave, we said nope and defeated them, the most enjoyable part was destroying a PL cap fleet and then watching their AU TZ collapse. So perhaps you might want to qualify your very over confident statement a bit…

Jump fatigue of course had an important part to play in this as their Au TZ and west coast US TZ did not bring their supers, that was the only way they could have evicted us. Anyway a TZ specific failure but still.

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Cap proliferation is getting so bad, CCP may seriously have to consider nerfing them.

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I think you need to be a bit more specific with that statement, to be blunt caps overall are in a good position if you look at it from fleet fights at least imo. Also they have a penalty in entosing so that works out fairly well.

To be honest the medium sized fleets where people can use their full range of ships is really in a fun state at this point, and especially so in TZ’s where we can have lower number fights that don’t kill the server. It certainly kept me in the game.

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My point was the growing number of caps by those that have them, vs those that dont.

The numerical increase is the cause of my concern, not the stats themselves.

But since CCP cant adjust the rate of cap proliferation, nerfing them may become necessary to maintain some semblance of force balance in EVE.

Particularly, increasing jump fatigue, to prevent larger entities deploying their larger cap fleets as fast across longer distances.

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I want to stress something that Ive learned in my military training, study of military history and in RTS/conflict games.

Mobility, is extremely important.

All other factors being equal/covered, its perhaps the most important tactical and strategic element.

The faster you can deploy forces from x to y, the more force you can apply where you need it, when you need it.

No matter how large your force, it wont help you if its not in the right place at the right time.

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To be blunt if you are operating in nullsec you need to have caps, carriers, dreads for a start, and JF’s to bring stuff in. You also need sub caps. A small entity in the main TZ’s will have to pick their location very carefully, away from PL/NC or Goons. So it is not really a case of those that don’t more of a case of having less, though do you mean those that do not have supers and titans?

Well that in itself is not really an issue if jump fatigue stays as it is, though we have talked about the issue of jump clones and Keepstars previously.

I don’t think there is any reason to do so, my alliance has a lot of supers, we are rather picky on when we use them like many others though we have some brave souls who drop them on anything they can. There is a balance because using supers is a risk, you lose one to a dread bomb for example it hurts.

I think it is at the right level, there has been some talk about reducing this, which will be a huge mistake by CCP.

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Its largely a case of not enough of caps being destroyed in large entity engagements, to which they must commit them to overwhelm opposition.

The more caps you can field over your opponent, the less caps you will lose, and the more caps they will lose. Attrition escalates exponentially on the part of the smaller cap fleet, as they lose focused dps and opponents dps focuses the remainder.

That’s my disagreement. I know its an oblique conclusion, but if caps continue to proliferate at the rate they are in large entities, it may become necessary to nerf caps so they cant deploy en masse from one side of an empire to the other.

When an EVE entity has so many caps, they can start assigning them to cap capable players on jump clones, meaning that entity can field an almost immediate massive cap force at any strategic point simply by jump cloning over to it, rather than flying/jumping the cap over from another front.

In other words, the more caps an entity has, the less jump fatigue matters.

Instead of wasting time flying/jumping, they simply clone jump to another cap parked at the staging point.

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I think that this time will come, remember that massive fight when PL/ NC lost a huge number of Titans and supers to Goons and Stainwagon, that is what we should expect at some point.

Yes, however it is not quite as easy as that, you do waste a lot of DPS in TiDi for example.

In effect that is what we have now with the current level of jump fatigue, I think CCP has to keep an eye on the JC issue, but at this point it is at a good level of balance in my opinion.

I made you aware of this issue in the thread that Teckos raised, it is a major issue and I hope CCP is aware of it.

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