Let's Have Less Waffle And More Reality....Nerfed Procurers

Ok so theres one, from someone Ive never heard of. Of course, Ive not heard of lots of people. So, one vs 4000000000.

Its a start I guess.

I’m not here to judge. Just passing on the message.

but these changes are going to benefit gankers, right?

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Thanks for trying.

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Trying what? You wanted gank complaining and I gave it to you. They even referenced what the “princess” or whatever said. A simple thanks would have been sufficient but you seem defensive and combative instead. I’m not going to waste any more time on this. Just wanted to help.

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No, friend, here’s what I said:

Then here’s what you said, in an effort to prove me wrong:

And here’s what the person you’re referencing said:

Please don’t move the goal posts by transforming my claim about how gankers are responding to the situation, into what random players are saying about ganking.

Once again, thanks for trying.

So… What was the old align n warp? for a proc

:wave: :wave: :wave:

20 seconds of searching turned up this:

Not that it matters anyway. The only occasional ganker I’ve personally heard comment on it says it shouldn’t make any difference, because the miners they remove from “their space” don’t fit for tank anyway.

I have bring some of my concerns to attention of CSM , hope them deliver to the CCP .

You dont give a single ■■■■ ? . And today you lost my all respect . There is no descent way to discus about a subject or share concerns ?

I have been expecting you to be more holistic and neutral when it comes to evaluating variables may take effect on balance in eco system

There are no biased mindset can come to make healty evaluations about the ecosystem .

Yes i am not a ganker . Since this is all your focus and you dont care the rest .I am sitting and looking at your small character icon and thinking about the mindset you have … makes you believe in lie you created out of your mind .

I do respect all different gameplay styles as long as suitable to game mechanics and hold myself neutral .

To be able to make healty evaluations … keep my mind clear .

Also Might be a random person for “ you” … but that should not be enough to dismiss my concerns … last 3 days i have talk severeal indy high and null leaders as well as 2 biggest gank organisations leaders … to hear their insights …

I have still have concerns and still hoping to be wrong .

And i wrote down my concerns .

I did add those values earlier but removed them for clarity, so just reinstalled the previous version of pyfa. Here are the numbers for EHP and align, old and new. Note that the Proc and skiff will have their align lowered by 20% in the next few days so that would make it ~14,9

Mining

Result: overall buff for just about everything and allowing for more meaningful mining choices. Yet miners can’t stop complaining. Holds got increased as well, I don’t see any miners whining about how they want the old holds back, weirdly.

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Dunno what you complaining about, getting over 73k EHP

[Procurer, Pussy Wagon]
Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II

Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II

Medium Transverse Bulkhead I
Medium Transverse Bulkhead I
Medium Transverse Bulkhead I

Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5

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Permit Enforcers

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It was already quite long…10 seconds or so. Now it is more like 20. Which is just ludicrous. CCP need to take note that there’s 1001 other games people could be playing.

How can a general lowering of EHP and a double of align time not benefit gankers ? So a Proc now has to sit outside any station or at any gate for almost a full 20 seconds. I tend to agree with Destiny…what reason would gankers possibly have to complain about this ?

So, +0.64 difference if you use an MWD.

Hardly a big whoop.

Same with the EHP. If resistance isnt nerfed, there’s no downside here.

Okay, so gankers and miners have mutually exclusive opinions over whether or not the changes will make it easier or harder to gank miners. One of these groups has to be wrong. Now, what is particularly interesting to me is not that some players can make bad predictions and analyses, but how an entire demographics can do it.

Anyway, how bout some fits and maths. Because, surely miners will see it and be like, “wow, thank you. I will now change my opinion based on this new information, because that’s what reasonable and logical people do.”


COVETOR

Max Yield

  • 14.4k EHP
  • 3 MLU’s (plus mining drone rigs)
  • 2 Open mids, but you’ll only have enough CPU for a survey scanner.

Hull Tank


RETRIEVER

"No Tank"

  • Well, if you fit absolutely no tank, you’d have 13.6k EHP versus void. However, with the fitting room and slots that you have at your disposal, there’s really no point. Might as well slap a MSE on there.
  • 15k EHP
  • 3 MLU’s (plus mining drone rigs)
  • Survey Scanner
  • Extremely tight on CPU, but there are various ways to solve that (i.e. train skills, CPU implant, compact MSE, drop a drone rig).

Light Shield Tank

Hull

Shield


PROCURER

Hull Tank

  • 66k EHP
  • 1 MLU (same as what most had before).
  • Two open mids. Plenty of fitting room left. Can fit survey scanner and/or prop mod. Can still bait fit.

Shield Tank

  • 65k EHP
  • 2 MLU’s
  • No room for a survey scanner (which I personally don’t consider a huge loss, but even if you do, you still have fitting options. So, it’s up to you what you want to prioritize -tank, yield, or survey scanner).

Brick Tank

  • 76k EHP
  • 1 MLU (same as before)
  • No survey scanner.
  • I’d assert you’d be better off with the increased yield, as 66K EHP is already enough to deter most gankers, but you have the option.

I could go, but I’ve already spent like 2 hours working on this post. So, I’m not going to do exhumers. Plus, there’s still the strat of mining while aligned, which is still viable.

And yes, we could argue till the cows come home over what’s the best strats or fits to use. However, that won’t change the fact that miners most certainly did not get the shaft with these changes.

For example, it used to be that a solo ganker could assume that they could pretty much gank any retrievers or covetors that they came across, regardless of how they were fit. The only relevant variables were system security status and concord pull status. Now, you either have to scan ships (which increases the time between ganks, and the chances that you’ll spook miners and they’ll safe up), or you have to bring additional gankers. Thus, the idea that the retriever and covetor buffs are inconsequential is straight up bad analysis. I mean, even just looking at the numbers, you can see a big jump in EHP. But more importantly, the increased EHP creates a break point. I mean, I don’t know about you guys, but I think that having to double the number of gankers required to execute a gank is a BFD.

And, then we have the totally destroyed procurer. WELCOME TO THE NEW GOLDEN AGE OF PROCURER GANKING!!! I mean, look at those numbers. Man, I should invest in ponchos, because it’s going to be a blood bath.

Edit: @Mike_Azariah I’m not asking for you to bring this to CCP or anything. I just wanted to share some actual fits and math, instead of just ranting.

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Great work, sir! Fine effort.

I firmly believe in a “sink or swim” philosophy when it comes to EVE, and in a sea of drowning babies, HERE we have a MAN. A Man who can SWIM!

I would be very interested in seeing your analysis of the exhumers. In particular the Hulk. Could I convince you somehow?

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But… but… aren’t we all Spartacus ? We can’t all be completely wrong :rofl:

I’d be curious to know what ccp’s thinking was on the procurer mid slot change. Guess I’ll have to wait until your NDA lapses and then conspire with others to administer copious amounts of alcoholic beverages to your good self and get the juicy details.

and by mixing tanks ! The blasphemy !
06428db07b5e731e08cb96fddb75669e

Why settle for procurers ? The Hulks are back. I mean THE HULKS ARE BACK!!!
HULKAGEDDON

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Well, I agree with your first paragraph, but also wanted to defend Mike.

“Decrying” means publicly denounce, not crying or ranting. And, I don’t even consider the word to have negative connotations. So, I think it’s unfair to characterize him as saying that gankers are crying.

And, not for nothing, but he’s probably received a salty email or two from gankers. Don’t get me wrong, gankers aren’t crying like miners have been, but there’s probably at least a few that got a little salty about this.

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