New EHP Balance of the Mining Ships and Outcome

My question to the CSM:

CCP is proposing to effectively double the EHP of miners. Are they also aware this will end Highsec miner ganking, and provide absolute safety to miners in Highsec? Has CCP considered the longterm economic ramifications to Highsec mining invulnerability?

There is a math behind suicide ganking. A lot of effort on top of the these calculations.

Anybody who know the MATH will understand.

Does CCP actually intend to make Highsec mining an activity which is exempt from PvP?

Has the CSM informed CCP that Highsec gankers will not be able to kill miners with doubled EHP?

If CCP’s goal is to incentive mining, then this should be done by increasing the yield of miners, to reward miners who manage to avoid ganks. However, this EHP change will eliminate Highsec ganking, destroying one of the core components of gameplay.


All we need are polarized mining lasers to fix the problem.


It’s funny you say this because I’ve just been talking to a miner who is complaining that the changes to certain barges, like the procurer, will make them impossible to use and the buffs to EHP are not significant enough to be worth it.


I agree with that statement.


Maybe both are true?

The nerf to Procurer mid slots and EHP could make them less worth using, compared to the buffed EHP of the other barges, which now -apart from more EHP to survive solo suicide gankers- also have mining bonuses (yield or cargo) that the Procurer has not?

The Procurer is currently a good choice of barge if a pilot wants more survivability. But if the baseline survivability of the other barges is buffed (why is CCP doing that?) this means there is less reason to pick the Procurer.

And if the baseline EHP of the low EHP barges is buffed, there are less targets for solo PvPers to find and shoot.

I’d like to hear why CCP thinks the barges need more EHP.

Also I really wonder why the Procurer has an align time of over 20 seconds on the test server last I checked, while the align time of the Covetor has been buffed to be under 10 seconds, while previously the Procurer was the most agile barge. Is that intentional by CCP and if so, why? Or is it an unintended consequence of messing with the mass of the barges and should we file a bug report?

I’m missing clarity of CCP stating their intended view of the barges to say whether it is one or the other.

Miners are not ganking. The one you talk did not know how to calculate.
You do not know either.
Can you answer my question with math?

You seem to think you know the math, why dont you provide it if youre so knowledgeable instead of being unhelpful and hostile in your reply?

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It’s pretty obvious. If the EHP of a target doubles, then it will be impossible for a ganker to kill the target, without doubling their DPS.

Gankers are already multiboxing multiple accounts, are you expecting them to subscribe twice as many accounts?

Mackinaw | Maugra Equatin | Killmail | zKillboard

Now this ganker can not gank same target with one thalos . He needs 2 account 2 thalos.

And he will not have 38 seconds he will still have 19 seconds

2 thalos cost 250 mil isk

Mackinaw drops 8 mil isk … total destruction 252 mil isk.

Very clear and simple way to explain i think…

They will stop and poliferation will start . How CCP will take this under control in high sec ?

Maybe it will be self correcting. People will start mining. They will get bored. Then they will unsubscribe.


I just talk to a miner he told me that … now it will get truly “ boring “ …

But imagine …

What happens if miner ganking stops totally?
how to loose a mackinaw? It is not null sec suddenly response fleet come to help…

Oh yes … now response fleets has 2 times more time to run for help in null.
How about high sec?

I’m a lawyer. I don’t do math.

I also didn’t program the changes. I’ve passed on to CCP that high sec gankers are concerned - I literally cut and pasted an email from Princess Aiko to them - so this message has been heard.

That’s about as much as I can do at this point.


This argument doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

It was ALREADY not isk efficient (in terms of loot) to gank with one Talos - you were spending 85 million per Talos to kill an Mackinaw that drops 8 million isk. You didn’t care about the lost isk before, so why is that an issue now? Even if you use two, you’re still killing a 250 mil isk Mackinaw with 170 mil isk worth of Talos. You’re still isk positive.


Well firstly, most ganks don’t happen with a talos unless they are going for freighters or orcas. If they use a talos on a barge theyre dumb and if they use it on an exhumer its only 1 with extra catalyst.

Ganking miners is still going to be very viable with the ehp buffs. All it is doing it making it a bit harder so a ganker cant use 1 or 2 catalyst to kill a hulk/mackinaw. Now they will need more than normal (no idea how many as I havent done math nor do I care).

Ganking hasn’t changed. Its not easier its not any significantly harder. The ehp buffs were really to make it so that the other ships besides the proc/skiff could be used outside of highsec without the need for some sort of combat support ship for rats and so that any backup has a slightly increased time to respond before their miners die.

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You can not make this kind of judgement without knowing tank of target, systems security lvl and how many pilots engage .

Tank of the target 2x … given time frame to complete ganking succesfully is the same .


Please pass this fact to CCP too. Doubling costs does effect leisure activities .

CCP should be very sure about gankers will not turn their face from mining ships.

I do understand your logic… You think they do this already even there is no profit goes into wallet. But this doesnt mean they will keep doing this even costs increase double triple to infinite…

Understanding their gameplay is very essential. What incentivise them?
It is important to understand their decision making process to predict possible outcomes of this new update.

My hope is there will be something still keep them interested.

Also i would like to say thank you to for passing one of the representatives concerns to CCP.

I just wanted to share my concerns and predictions in this thread.
And i do wish to be wrong . But afraid to say that , I am on the point here.

I went over to Sisi. A 100% Hull tanked Procurer is only 75,000 EHP. On the live server a shield tanked Procurer is 65,000 EHP. The only way mining barges will have any tank is 100$ hull tanked but we both know a lot of the miners will for go the tank and use mining upgrades.

You can have a 70kehp shield proc now on tq.

Gankers don’t buy skins, so what good are they?