CCP's 100 Percent Legit EHP Doubling Service

Industry Gameplay Center Mining & Extraction
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So it is my understanding that CCP plans to double the EHP of barges and exhumers. This would be a very extreme change and I believe it would be akin to taking two steps back in terms of what scarcity had sought out to correct from the very start.

Granted, this is supposed to be the “end” of scarcity, and great, finally, yes, but it is clear with this proposed change that the pendulum has been allowed to swing quite violently in the other direction, like a wrecking ball hurtling towards the tower of progress we’ve built up thus far. To put it simply, the only thing this change will accomplish is to much further proliferate the AFK mining status quo in Highsec, and ganking them will turn out to be monetarily restrictive on the best of days. Solo gankers will struggle the most in the event that EHP is multiplied. For instance, to gank a Retriever, they would need at least a battlecruiser. To gank a Mackinaw on the other hand, they would need well… a dread (which of course you cant fly in hs lol)… I mean honestly I wouldn’t fault them in the event that they quit, just on the grounds that it’s simply not sensible to anticipate that someone should utilize a Naga or a Talos to kill a single barge… After EHP is doubled, I would optimistically require 8 ships, eight. Either that, or I would need to utilize battlecruisers. Obviously this is just not monetarily reasonable, considering the Mackinaw might drop like what 6 million isk in ‘loot’? I would not fault myself in the event that I simply quit ganking excavators alltogether after such a change. For me, Highsec merits fighting for, but I’m not going to drop battlecruisers on barges, that would be foolish. Of course CCP has buffed mining in the past, and yes ganking made due (scarcely). However, this comes on top of every single past change. As the most active group of gankers in the game, we know there isn’t much incentive at all to gank these days, and there are few gankers left. If barge EHP is multiplied, that might just push it over the edge, and make miner ganking just another past activity that noone does anymore. And perhaps there may be some underlying intent behind these proposed changes, although if that is the case then it is likely in the interest of all of us honestly if the developers were just transparent about that, whatever the case may be. But if it really does what we believe it will do to Highsec miner ganking, the miners will surely take notice, and soon after they will all go AFK on a scale never seen before, and we will watch as the price of Veldspar plummets. The bots will proliferate, in tanky little Covetors and invulnerable Mackinaws. A new dawn… of abundance?

I certainly don’t want to see Eve devolve into that again, and hey so far to their credit CCP has shown a similar outlook and determination to insure that it doesn’t, and it is because of that I bother to write this in the hopes they might reconsider such an arbitrary buff to EHP and prevent the ramifications of which would certainly result from it… and of course the somber irony of how the only reason you don’t see several hundred Catalysts protesting in Jita right now is because well… yeah… :upside_down_face:

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Ok wall of text, calm yourself down.

There’s more here than a ehp buff. Miners now have choices on if they want tank, yield, less waste etc. Before you give another wall of text it would help to have knowledge of what you are talking about

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I am aware of these things, however tank, yield, etc were always choices they had. This dynamic isn’t new. What is new however is the arbitrary buff to EHP on top of all that. Also why get rid of mid slots on the Proc?

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I too think this is really going to put a damper on ganking miners. However, there will still be no shortage of suitable gank targets, miners will still get ganked (especially the lazy and greedy ones), and there are other tools in the scumbag’s toolbox. So, ganking will likely take a hit, but it will survive, and there are still other options for those looking to profit off of miners and/or fight for highsec.

Moreover, I’m pretty sure CCP doesn’t want to recreate the need for a second scarcity. Thus, I’m rather confident that they will adjust course if things get too bad.

So, keep a stiff upper lip, and make good use all the tools at your disposal (including the newest one).

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0 kills. 0 ganks. 100% expert on ganking.

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I believe there is a vital distinction to be made here, The solution is to increase YIELD, rewarding miners who keep themselves at low risk of losing their ships via their own actions and initiative. However, a blanket EHP buff does nothing to reward players who have this initiative and only makes the crutch that much more sturdy for those who dont, with the added level of invulnerability resulting in an even larger portion of them deciding they can farm away from the keyboard without consequence. I certainly have no objection to successful miners getting more ISK to incentivize their activity. However, if the EHP is increased, it will become virtually impossible to kill them.

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I think you missed the point where the risk/reward of flying exhumers and barges had narrowed the choice to procurers.

The change sucks for procs, but now we may see all the other barges/exhumers undocked more frequently

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So what exactly is the problem?

Miners are not cost effective to gank in high sec?

So loads of afk miners in high sec? Ore price goes down ganking ships are cheaper…

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I doubt that the cost of battlecruisers will go down to the extent that gankers will be able to break even expending 2 or 3 of them per T1 mining barge.

Highsec ganking isn’t dead because there are still plenty of targets out there. However, the ganking of miners is dead as a playstyle with this patch. People will still do it sometimes for the principle of the thing, but they will only be able to do so at a significant cost unless the miner in question has an unusually expensive fit.

I would argue that in light of the extreme power creep of the EHP of miners and haulers that we have seen in the last decade, as well as the removal of traditional wardecs from the game (formerly the only alternate to ganking when it comes to keeping highsec dangerous), that it is now an opportune moment to give CONCORD response times another look.

Increasing CONCORD response time would be a buff to both ganking (more potential dps applied) and to anti-ganking (more time for counterplay). It’s a win win for everyone.

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nope.

I agree that it could be better, if players with a criminal timer had their damage divided by two and concord respond time was double.
But in reality, it would be a win win with damage divided by 10 and concord respond time multiplied by 1. It’s almost the same number, just a 0 and we kow 0 is nothing.

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EHP of targets being doubled is effectively the same thing as dps of gankers being halved. And if we are looking at this objectively, the average EHP of miners and haulers has been far more than doubled since the current CONCORD response times were established.

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proc lost EHP. freighter EHP is not doubled. Most ships EHP is not doubled

So no, targets EHP is not doubled.
So it’s not “objectively” doubled.

Also DPS of gankers, per ISk, has been increased a lot. This is only balancing and getting back to the original numbers.

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I’d say go gangk other pvp peeps in null but they all fly complete trash so nevermind XD

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Procurer hasn’t lost or gained any significant EHP in this patch, but in previous patches you bet it has. It’s EHP has far more than doubled since the current CONCORD response times were settled upon, many years ago. It was already impossible to gank profitability, so it didn’t need any additional EHP to cross that threshold.

Now all the other barges and exhumers have joined the Procurer and Skiff in that virtually ungankable territory. While I think that’s going to be a boon to nullsec gankers like myself, who will probably enjoy a greater diversity of targets going forward, it is certainly the death knell of highsec miner ganking as a playstyle. Since traditional wardecs have been removed already, this means near 100% safety for highsec miners flying anything larger than a Venture. There are bound to be consequences for a change of such magnitude.

Freighters haven’t had their EHP buffed lately, but have indeed had massive EHP buffs since the current CONCORD mechanics were settled upon, all those years ago, as have all haulers.

Over the years, there has been power creep in both respects, but EHP buffs for miners and haulers have vastly outpaced dps increases. I know you have been playing this game a long time, as have I, so this is certainly something that you already know.

As of this patch, hauler ganking remains a viable and profitable playstyle, in spite of all efforts to nerf it thus far, but highsec miner ganking is effectively done. To my mind, this is a shame, and adjusting CONCORD response times to compensate for the power creep that we have seen over the years seems like an appropriate solution that wouldn’t tie up a lot of developer resources.

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It did.
nough said.

and the difference here is that you add the notion of profit, which was absent before : you are switching the goal post.

Profit of ganks has actually increased, by a lot. The addition of ABC, the increase DPS of void, the reduce in cost of destroyers.
Your claim is void.

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