Let's talk about Bombers Bar

(Raw Matters) #1

So the concept is: roll a new WH exit, send through a single tackler, once he has tackled something open cyno and bridge the remaining 60+ ppl via Black Ops if necessary. Alternatively: swarm the area with everyone and kill everything on sight. Once done they return to the WH, re-roll it, rinse, repeat.

While the Bombers Bar guys obviously are having fun, there is just one problem with this, that becomes even more problematic with the current local issues: there is no way to actually prevent that. They have optimized that strategy to a point, that on average it takes them less than a minute to warp into the sites after they re-rolled the WH. So unless you constantly monitor for new sigs and immediately dock everything once one appears, there is hardly a counter for this. And with the sheer size they bring, you’d have like 50+ ppl constantly ready to defend, which is highly unrealistic for most corps/alliances. So the other side is constantly not having fun.

The main problem here is the fact that you can infinitely re-roll a WH exit and therefore constantly harass random systems with barely any chance to defend against that. To not totally destroy that thing in general, I’d suggest to add an increasing delay to WH respawns. So basically the first one re-appears immediately, if that is not terminated through it’s natural life-time, the next one will re-appear with a delay of 5 minutes, then 10, then 20, then 40, and so on, doubling the time every time.

This way those who enjoy this on the dealing end of the game can do it a few times, but they cannot just randomly flood systems and get free kills all day long.

(Lugh Crow-Slave) #2

yet certain areas are generally avoided during certain times because it in fact can be countered.

your post also seems to try and make it look like setting these things up is easy. it is not there is a lot of effort and background work that goes into these ops and into running them once they have started. they are also pretty much the only real threat to afk miners and ratters out in null.

this shows a horrible lack of understanding in the mechanics you want to change

before i was done reading this i had already managed to counter it just by knowing how C2s work. the only thing this would do is make it extremely hard for smaller groups to do it but have no effect on BB or other large groups

again they are in no way “free kills” there is a lot of work that goes into it and there is a real risk of lose when we are baited.

i take it you have never actually flown in groups like this and have just simple lost something to them recently and are venting your frustration.

only thing i agree with is local is making this style much more powerful and CCP needs to get its â– â– â– â–  together. this is looking to be the worst decision they have made since incarna

(Daichi Yamato) #3

50 organised pilots…That shouldn’t be easy to counter.

And a bunch of people having fun is good for the game. Not in a hurry to nerf this because a few people don’t like it.

(Whitehound) #4

Basically what you’re saying is you want Jump Fatigue to be applied to wormhole travels, too.

(Merin Ryskin) #5

Stay aligned, only do PvE in fleets of PvP-capable ships, only PvE at gated signatures where you can watch for probes on d-scan, and stop whining to CCP every time your PvE farming has a risk of loss.

(The Dunning Kruger) #6

Kick them out of their wormhole. It’s super easy and you’ll even kill Bombers Bar in the process, since their greedy (and terrible) FCs will lose their ISK source and quit.

(Cassia Belani) #7

It’s been done already, doesn’t work

(Old Pervert) #8

You’ve obviously never tried to counter them.

We’ve countered them easily. They brought 50 bombers and a dozen recons. We brought 30 carriers. They noped out so fast the FC didn’t even have time to order free fire before they were bugging out. Smart on their part.

There is exactly zero wrong or cancerous with how they roam. They’re doing the lord’s work generating content. Never forget that the only thing you’re entitled to in Eve is the opportunity to shoot and be shot at.

(The Dunning Kruger) #9

It did work. BB didn’t do ■■■■ while Inner Hell was occupying the wormhole, IH just didn’t give a damn in holding it longer than a week and left again. Really all you have to do is occupy it instead of just leaving after the huge payout (IH got 220 billion in loot).

(elitatwo) #10

Yep, there is nothing wrong in capital online…

(MinerArt) #11

Optional. You can choose to never undock and play the game from a market manipulator in Jita, or build ships as an industrialist, or scam contracts, or many other things which require absolutely no undocking.

Granted a vast majority of the fun in eve involves undocking.

(Lugh Crow-Slave) #12

well to be fair there are plenty of areas in the game you can go where this isn’t the case

(Raw Matters) #13

From the Bombers Bar Website: “Reasons To Join Bombers Bar Fleets: BE JUST AN F1 MONKEY!!

There are a few people who do an excellent job at locating and tackling targets, the other 90% hit F1 and enjoy the explosions.

Last time they came in it took them 20 seconds from appearing in local till the Rorqual was tackled. This has nothing to do with being afk, they are just damn fast.

You are talking about loosing the 5m cyno frig that does the tackling? Yeah that’s really tough to compensate…

There is no need and should not be a need to implement anything that allows people to simply block 50 attacking people. The only problem is that they (and others doing the same) can use the element of surprise endlessly, which is what is wrong atm.

Except that the fatigue does not apply to the player but to the WH exit itself.

So a Rorqual that is unable to warp for 5 minutes should be aligned to escape… what a brilliant idea! Also having 50 people guarding the 10 ppl mining fleet 24/7 totally sounds like my style of fun… not.

Please enlighten us with your super easy tactic. Last time they came in they destroyed the Rorqual and retreated to their WH in the time it took me to jump 1 system to my PvP ship and switch to the PvP clone. They were gone before I even undocked. So let’s hear your super easy counter then.

(The Dunning Kruger) #14

How about don’t activate the industrial core when you’re unable to adequately defend it? Entitlement much?

(Lugh Crow-Slave) #15

and those rorqs have 5 min invuln for back up to show. don’t mine with them if you can’t defend them

just because the grunts aren’t doing the work doesn’t mean its not being done. this argument could be used against any large fleet. at least bombers have to be responsible for themselves and their own warp offs

well that’s just flat out miss information i know you know there is a lot more to it than that don’t be so dishonest

again a rorq is designed to only be used if you can defend it. and you don’t have them guarding it 24/7 you have them out and about doing there own thing they have 5 min to get back to system or the ratting carriers to jump onto a cyno.

so either it didn’t panic or you are slow af. others are managing to counter these guys and people have occupied their hole. just because your group is to disorganized/unmotivated is not a reason to change a perfectly fine mechanic in a way that would only negatively effect people doing things other than what you think needs to be fixed.

i want to remind you your idea doesn’t even solve your imagined problem

(Old Pervert) #16

Not my fault they decided to drop on a rorq in our crabbing system. We had a couple dozen supers and 50 faxes on standby if an escalation happened, we don’t fight fair when we’re in our own house and you’ve no reason to expect us to.

We don’t give good fights when you roam our space. We win fights when you roam our space.

Interestingly though, they were ONLY able to do this because they were in subcaps. Capitals online indeed.

(Old Pervert) #17

Interestingly it appears to just be that the OP is slow as ■■■■. He had a PANIC fit. Unless the rorq pilot went full retard and just forgot to activate it. I could be wrong that it’s about this particular kill but the details all seem to line up.

I mean, @Lugh_Crow-Slave’s post is entirely on the money, but that was especially worth repeating.

Lets turn this into a teaching moment for you and yours.

  1. That chimera was unsupported. I don’t know if they tackled it or if it came to help the rorqual. It should never have been tackled, it should have warped off the moment locals entered…
  2. Rorqs can be fit to tank supers for days. That rorq fit is utterly terrible. Pilot may as well have thrown plates in the low slots to complete the trifecta of stupidity.
  3. As Lugh said, the rorq either didn’t panic or didn’t call for help when he got tackled. You should have had a bare minimum of 5 minutes to get help to him. If he wasn’t trained for full PANIC cycle time, tell him to train it up before he undocks. That was stupid on his part.
  4. They only had 35 bombers. That would not have been enough to break a properly fit rorq. They had somewhere between â– â– â– â–  and all for neut pressure, which meant that had the rorq been properly fit, it could have simply tanked them until your response fleet arived or they got bored.

(Whitehound) #18

Well, they did implement Jump Fatigue for a good reason. Could be CCP are going to do something similar for WH space at some point, but it will very much depend on how big of an annoyance it actually is. They will not do something about it to counter one or two gangs.

(Lugh Crow-Slave) #19

now to give him the minor amount of fairness he deserves there could have been void bombs.

(Old Pervert) #20

That is fair. They didn’t need them, but that is fair they could have had (and probably did) them.