Broker fees are still ridiculous. A market order is not a transfer of goods, it is only a form of communication to the other party that you want to buy or sell something. It shouldn’t take up to 5%(!) to just say you want to buy it.
All this does is make managing larger market orders a pain because if you first say you want to buy and the market changes you lose the extreme broker fees. It forces people to micro manage the same buy order into smaller chunks, which is tedious and adds nothing.
Broker fee should only be to prevent spamming the market. 0.5% or so is more than enough. The moment of actually payment should be the transaction itself and the transaction tax can be raised accordingly.
Let transaction tax, ergo the actual transfer of the goods be the ISK sink. Give citadels the option of setting their own transaction tax instead of broker fee and have the same fixed broker fee for the citadels as well.
Love it or hate it, it was done to stop the .01 isk war, which it has succeeded at. So, you can’t say that it doesn’t add anything.
Now, will a .5% relist fee be enough? I don’t know. It might be able to be lower than what it is now and still stop people from constantly updating their orders, but it also just might lead to more “chunking” and updating.
Yeah now we enter orders thinking they go one price but end up in the wrong price slot as it changes the price from what we originally entered. Even more confusing to people. Then we have to modify or cancel it to fix it, which costs more.
So instead of 0.01 isk price wars, we now have 10k isk price wars or whatever and people making order entry mistakes on prices.
I know when I enter prices I think they go to one price, then they decide no we’re going to round it up to that then it ends up at some other price I didn’t expect.
If it’s a small adjustment, just use the scroll wheel. And if it’s a large adjustment, type in the price of the best order, and then use the scroll wheel. Scroll wheel does the rounding before you hit confirm. So no surprises.
The 4 digit rule already solved the .01 isk war. The insane relist and broker fees are a solution to a problem that was already solved by something without all the negative side effects.
That rule doesn’t solve people constantly updating their orders. It would just mean that they’d have to use bigger steps. I mean, technically you’re right. It would stop the .01 isk war. Only, it would make it the 100 isk war. or the 1,000 isk war, or whatever, depending on whatever your step size is.
Yeah, so most people don’t have that problem. Did you read my suggestion on how to stop that from happening?
You know, you guys are kind of bad at this right? I’m serious, I could make better arguments for why to get rid of the relist fees. In fact, you guys just chill, I’ll argue against myself.
Shipwreck Jones 1: The relist fee stops the 1 isk war.
Shipwreck Jones 2: And why is that a good thing?
SJ1: Because it means that you don’t have to be constantly updating orders in order to be a competitive industrialist or trader.
SJ2: So what you’re saying, is that the rule helps casuals to compete. I didn’t realize that you’re actually for the casualization of Eve.
SJ1: That’s not what I said, and don’t put words in my mouth. The 1 isk war wasn’t fun game play, and the game is better off without it.
SJ2: Not fun for you doesn’t mean that other people didn’t enjoy doing it. Plus, you didn’t have to engage in the 1 isk war in order to be a successful trader or industrialist. No one is forcing anyone to sell out of Jita. You could sell and trade out of smaller trade hubs where most people don’t do the isk war. But people wanted to play with the big boys without having to put in the work.
SJ1: Well, what about market bots?
SJ2: Good point. Why can’t CCP improve their bot detection methods so that they can ban market bots, instead of punishing the hard core traders.
SJ1: Well, even if CCP got rid of all bots, there’s still the issue of perceptions of botting. I know for a fact that people assume that those that constantly update their orders are using market bots because people used to message me to ask me if I was a bot.
SJ2: Oh, so we should nerf play styles and make design decisions based on conspiracy theories and ignorance now? Don’t you sometimes get accused of botting for no other reason that you multi-box? I guess we should ban multi-boxing now, lest some idiots think you’re a bot.
SJ1: …
SJ2: Well? Cat got your tongue?
SJ1: No, I just… well… I…
Good god. You won Liz Lemon. Pro-relist fee Shipwreck made a mistake, and Anti-relist fee Shipwreck pounced. Someone at CCP, we need to roll back the change.
Better solution, don’t AUTOMATICALLY change the price I entered, TELL ME that what the new price WILL BE if I decide to accept it but don’t automatically enter it and submit it.
A little red text will do and NOT submitting it then I can modify the order price BEFORE submitting it.
Except it always rewarded predicting market movements already. And mindlessly updating orders is a moot point if every price difference is forced to be significant by the 4 digit rule.
I really don’t miss the old 0.01 ISK war but I also agree to the OP that putting up an order should not charge as much upfront. Imagine you want to sell your house and have to pay 5% to your broker even if the house doesn’t sell in the end. And even more if you want to lower your price.
It is also true that there should not be an automatic price adjustment if the price entered does not follow the 4 significant digits rule.
Overall the market works ok now, except for small markets. It should not be punished to seed those markets with more items than the current demand. The relist fee should be much lower or even zero if the order is about to expire. Or provide an option to extend the lifetime of the order without any change to the price, for a very low fee. Or lower the fees if the change will not improve the position of the order.
The less costly making/modifying an order is, the less i have to think about it. I just open the market, make sure mine is the best order and then rinse and repeat. I don’t even need to think about how big the order is.
When orders cost more I have a greater incentive to put a more realistic price for my orders to avoid frequent re-lists/modifications. I don’t want to make an order that’s too easy to beat but i also want to make as much money as possible. I also have to think about how big the order is. Too big and it wont complete, too small and i miss out on possible profits if the price moves.