Market Speculation on Broker Relations Update

I haven’t seen any thoughts / analysis on here how traders expect the market to adapt to the broker relations update. Thought I’d share my speculation and learn from others’ insights.

There are a few changes coming on the 10th March. A minor change, the minimum broker fee will increase from 0% to 1% in Upwell structures. This appears unlikely to affect most traders significantly. However, the advantage of the stations offering 0.0, 0.2 and 0.5 will be eroded by a small degree, making it slightly more difficult for these stations to attract business away from established hub stations. It will slightly reduce the profit margin and increase the cost to the player of big-ticket items often bought at these low tax stations such as Skill Injectors.

The changes to Margin Trading and tick size are much more interesting, and I’m interested to hear various takes on how it will affect things.

Margin Trading will cease to give a margin, i.e you will need to have all the money you are trading and this will be taken into escrow. This will reduce the buying power of traders, and reduce the speed at which individual traders can make money - this mostly applies to new / small net worth traders. The reduction in buying power is likely to reduce trading activity. Traders may have less competition in certain markets, allowing greater profits to be obtained through a reduced number of modifying price wars (e.g instead of modifying prices 10 times before a sale / all items sole, it’s 5 times).

The update will introduce a Relist Charge. From the Dev post, it appears this change is part of reducing the advantage to automated trading methods. If successful, high volume and / or high-profit margin markets in which bots likely operate may see medium to significant changes (depending on how many bots there are). A reduction in trading volume is likely where bots are present. This would be good for human traders due to the reduction in competition.

This sounds good so far, however, the Relist Charge essentially punishes traders updating orders. This could affect low profit and low profit-high volume items more than others. During the short period after the update, localized market corrections may occur for such items, however, long-term effects may be felt for items which are inherently low profit and don’t cycle through periods of greater profitability. The degree to which items are affected will likely also be based on the skill of the average trader in that market. At level 5 the Relist Discount will penalise traders only 25% of the total Relist Charge. General mindfulness of the new mechanic is advisable, price wars to get a sale will now carry a penalty.

Devs specifically point out “94% of orders never get modified at all”, as a justification for the Relist Charge. The reality of this statement is complex and without a further in-depth explanation of this data, it is difficult to analyse. 94% of orders are never modified? Have you ever sold anything on the market? It’s not possible to make ISK and not modify orders, unless you have the unparalleled power of finding monopoly positions over and over again. Without further insight, I suspect this number likely includes traders looking for bargains - setting buy and sell orders at minuscule prices or obscenely high which never get filled - or simply traders / players who don’t play often. These should be removed from the data for it to be meaningful in this use-case.

Finally, the change to the tick size (technical term for the smallest price increment) to four significant figures, i.e. “1,000”. No longer will traders battle by 0.1 increments. This has the potential to inflate / deflate prices (buy / sell) and affect profit margins.

With all these changes in one go, and the uncertainty they create, will traders rush to stable / inherantly valuable items? Certain blueprints? PLEX? Do eve players act like human traders rushing to gold in uncertain times?

I didn’t intend for this to be so long. Hopefully, it spurs you folk into thinking about the various changes and the future. Do share your insights below.


This is wrong, but okay.

Nothing else you’ve said is anything new that hasn’t already been discussed to death in the main thread: Broker Relations

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For me personally, the changes seem to be an advantage, because I don’t 0,01 ISK my orders. I change them within the second or third significant digit. If the 0,01 ISKers go away, I should be happy.

The new fees, included in player structures, will be a bitch. I will have to see.

I think the adaptation to the ginormous update fee will be that I set up a new order every time I want to update. That means I will have to trade a bit fewer items (300 orders max), and smaller amount of the item on each order.

The alternative would be to make really big orders and just wait the market out, but that sounds unprofitable for sure, if another big trader makes an equally large order just above yours.

As always, it will depend on what everybody else does too.


the March 10 update is like a grain of sand on the white beaches of the Caribbean,
and my business is the ocean, going on forever.

Too much sharks in your ocean !!!
I am suprised you still have your legs :smiley:

Someone famous says : " Only when the tide goes out do you discover who’s been swimming naked. "
-> you have been a naughty boy .

First month , i’ll probably just watch the effect to undertsand what’s the good direction .
Meanwhile , I’ll do the usual stuff , I am not as tied to the market as I was when I began the trade.

obvious strategies :

  • trade A -> B witrh at least 30% net margin
  • flipping during season one product ( > 30% net margin)
  • still undercutting any order with the new 1% ( instead of the 0.01 isk) rule
  • theses changes won’t be enough to push me to the corporation trade aspect
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I’d say it was broadly correct, minus the hyperbole of “impossible”. Making significant ISK without modifying an order even once is not the norm. This is from the point of view of a station trader, you can make ISK not modifying orders in low traffic systems etc no doubt or buy/selling across a large area looking for those monopoly positions. Legitimately interested if I’m mistaken here.

Thanks for the link.

Thanks for the insight. I think for most established traders you’re right, no 0.01ers, then less bots and possibly less competition. Just have to get used to the other changes.

I’m hoping the four significant digits and lack of 0.01 doesn’t encourage the non-thinking to just accelerate profit reducing price changes.

I am sure this feature has been tested extensively in Singularity.

They would not just impose this artificial change to our long standing market without testing and consultation with actual economists who study in-game economies…right?

4 sig figs doesn’t mean you can’t do 0.01ing
If you sold something for 10.01 isk, that’s 4 sig figs. Same for 10.02. The only difference is now you can’t do 0.01 isking on 800m isk buy orders, your minimum change would be 100k isk (800 100 000)

Singularity has an active player-driven market now?


The relist fee is the biggest change in my mind. .75% minimum in stations or .25% minimum in structures - it will pretty much kill micromanagement of orders. You’ll need to pick your price point and wait for the market to come to you or sacrifice a lot of margin. That probably means price compression - people are likely to price close to their floor rather than list high and chase the market down.

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Agree. The other changes are actually fine. The overall consequence IMO will be unstable markets with big price and volume changes, a lot of small orders, and a significant upped gambling part.

As a producer for profit and general lazy multi-buyer this looks bad.

Now the question is, what is “the floor” …

Your “floor” price is the price below which you will not chase the market - you simply wait for the under valued stock to clear and catch the bounce. In the past this has been an opportunity for windfall profits but the relist fee can erode those quickly - at least in stations, not to bad in structures - might see traders listing more product there.

Yes but you understand that your floor depends on the person, how he acquired the items, and how much margin he must do before he completely ignores the market ?

What I’m saying is that, if people place orders for the same item, with different “floor” values, then it may actually become a very active market. Depending on how people choose their floor.

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Correct. As a vertically integrated manufacturer I know what it costs to make the product and the margin I need to make the enterprise worthwhile. Thus far, that puts me about the middle of the market cycle for the products I make (and the small hubs I do business in). I don’t expect the market to converge on a single price point - anymore than it does now.

I do expect the cycles may be a bit slower - at least initially while people figure it out.


Which was exactly my point. So maybe I’m wrong, but IMO it won’t change a lot for producers.

Not just market manipulation you can manipulate the whole eve economy now, if you’re rich enough.I can see a lot of small fries losing a lot from this change.I’m not even considering myself among the biggest and I can impact markets in specific section on my own quite strongly.I welcome the fight against bots though but how long until they adapt?

All the recent market changes CCP has initiated recently are at least partly to suck ISK out of the game. The new much higher broker fees generally follow that trend but I think this one is a mistake, as it is going to totally screw up low margin item sales. A lot of EVE market items have fairly low margins as well as a LOT of market competition. If you don’t spend a fortune now just to get the ‘low price’ back, your stuff will just sit there priced somewhere in the middle of nowhere, with no sales. Bots aside, CCP has stepped in it this time.

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Oh it will…it will…muahahahaaa