It is just as much of a balance issue as other balance issues. Nothing more. Nothing less. Something that needs to be balanced.
Just like the next patch will aim to get triglavian ships more balanced.
Why should he be able to invest such minimal effort in the game but still be able to do the highest levels of endgame PvE content in the space dedicated to high-effort PvP empire building?
At this point its pretty clear that it IS a problem.
It really isnât, once you drop this attitude that once you figure out how to defeat the NPCs youâre entitled to farm anywhere in EVE.
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So not having a completely empty system in 0.0 is punishment? Really?
So far in this thread I have seen ZERO evidence that this situation is even widespread enough to warranty addressing. That being said.
Right now the counter argument is itâs not required.
Just looking at this thread, which I did like last week. Thereâs 425 distinct posters over the last 3 years. Half would be 212. Now thatâs even being generous, as I would argue for every one person coming to complain thereâs at least 2 others who refute that complaint. But Iâll split if 50/50 for ease of use.
Now lets use daily active players, which is also being generous, but since I have no idea of total subs its the easiest number to use. so letâs say over the last 3 years the daily average was 21k. That would mean roughly 1% of TOTAL daily active players found it necesarry to complain in this thread over the last 3 years. I believe there are roughly 3500 0.0 systems. So letâs say that 1% of active players each represent a distinct system. So that would be 35 systems being camped by afk cloakers.
Sure this is arbitrary, but since nobody else has even attempted to give actual stats, it is something at least.
So the question is, do we really need to completely rework cloaking for something that is affecting maybe 35 systems?
You are welcome to give better numbers if you have them. Until then nobody has shown any actual data to show this is a big enough issue to even be addressed.
Thats exactly what cloaky camping is. Its being spineless and abusing a game mechanic in an unintended way. When you cant take someones space so you try to render it useless with an unbalanced game mechanic.
If a single cloaky could render your space useless, did you ever really own it?
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Because the âHigh effort empireâ depends on people like Bob to be in their empire use their space and thrive amongs them. He is able to do it because the âEmpireâ lets him. Because they took the space. They kept the space. And because of an unbalanced game mechanic they cant âfullyâ use the space.
And it is pretty clear to me that those who are arguin that its not unbalanced never been in the shoes of our example.
And now you will tell me that Bob should not be in that Empire then and so on because you think thats a valid point. And you disregard that bob might like to be in an empire with a lot of people even if hes not the most active player and spend his time doing âENDGAME PVE CONTENTâ anomaly farming is far from it but hey you are the expert. And still no valid argument on why fuel shoudnt be introduced on cloak use.
You can only render it useless if the âownersâ are incredibly weak and own their system in name only.
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There still has been no proof that this is something that is so widespread it needs a âfixâ
And your shoes are what exactly? As a poster alt I have no way to know your specific situation.
Nope. Sounds like the real problem is they bought the right to put their name on the system from a more powerful PvP group but have zero ability to defend that space from even the weakest of threats.
And it is pretty clear to me that those who are arguin that its not unbalanced never been in the shoes of our example.
Wrong. Been there, done that, still did PvE in nullsec.
And now you will tell me that Bob should not be in that Empire then and so on because you think thats a valid point.
Youâre right. Bob should find a better alliance, one that isnât renter trash. Then Bob will find it much easier to PvE. Although Bob might not be happy with the fact that competent alliances will expect their members to contribute to the collective defense of their space, not spend all of their time farming and giving nothing in return.
Why do you think only renters have this problem?
TEST have this problem
The Imperium have this problem
PANFAM have this problem
Why do you think that anyone is able to do anything about it? Because pretty much thats the problem here. What you fail to see. Is that NO ONE can do ANYTHING about it.
Why do Jump Freighters use fuel?
Why cant Cloak use fuel?
Is this more clear for you now? Whats the drawback on fuel use other than you cant spend hours sitting potentially afk and not moving at all?
Add a fuel bay to cover capable ships to avoid reducing cargo space. And regular ships should use their cargo space if they want to cloak for expended periods of time (max should be around 3-4 hours with full tank). Give me one reason of why this would interfere with any other cloaky activity in such way that it would be a HUGE nerf.
As Iâve said twice already in the last 2 posts i made (You probably missed the other one while you were typing furiously). First you need to show this is some horrible widespread problem.
I havenât even seen a single time anyone has even given a rough number of how widespread this is. how many systems are being afk camped daily? 1? 10? 100? I tried a few posts up to come up with some numbers. It can be refuted if someone can, but at least it was a start.
The bottom line is you donât change a module that will have a negative effect on 99% of players using it when you canât even show how big your perceived âproblemâ is.
well your video example is renter space. Almost everyone who has actually posted to complain here has turned out to be renters. I canât think of anyone who lived in actual SOV space held by an alliance that can defend it actually come here to complain.
You have a hard time understanding text? Should i draw it? It doesnt affect anyone whos using the modules as intended even with fuel. Where is the ânegative effect on 99% of players using itâ ???
I canât think of anyone who lived in actual SOV space held by an alliance that can defend it actually come here to complain. ???
At times, several times each year, I do pure explorationâŚtourism, if you will. I wonât dock in a station during the entire time, sometimes as long as three weeks. This would be an enormous nerf to the explorer.
Players such as myself would be impacted by this suggestion.
The most celebrated player doing this is/was: Katia Sae
Lots of players have ambitions of seeing all of New Eden. Most will never reach that goal; but what you are suggesting wouldâŚend that ambition for most, if not all.
There, thatâs one reason.
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Because jump freighters move a vast amount of material instantly and safely to a destination. A cloak, in the context of AFK cloaking, only allows you to sit idle in space.
But sure, letâs ask the question about other modules. Why doesnât an armor plate use fuel? Why doesnât a MWD use fuel? Why doesnât staying docked in a station use fuel? Why should you be able to get any benefit without using fuel?
It doesnt just allow you to sit idle in space. It allows you to sit idle in a way that no other player can do anything about it without you suffering any drawback whatsoever. With the sole purpose to stop someones PVE activity.
I dont know where this âStaying docked in a stationâ stuff comes from for you but you clearly dont understand how assets work in the game. Just imagine if every station could be shot. Yo go for a walk and someone decides to kill every station that had ur assets. What are you going to do from there? Its so absolutely brainless to even ask that question that im not going to reply to that anymore.
Every single module has its ups and downs. An armor plate increases mass and thus redeuces agility and speed but you get that nice armor bonus. An MWD consumes capacitor, reduces maximum capacitor but boosts speed. We can clearly see that the benefit comes with a drawback. This is almost true to every module. And modules have intended use even if its a sandbox. Obvisouly you can fit Armor plates on a shield ship. Because you want to. But that armor plate will still fulfill its intended use of increasing armor.
Now take cloak. And in this instance lets use it to afk with it. Where is the drawback on me using a cloak for the sole purpose of detering PVE players from their desired activity? What is the drawback for me using that module for 23 hours straight without any input into the game. What can the PVE player do to stop me from using it. NOTHING.
Cloak canât shoot, cloak canât absorb damage, cloak canât drop ships on you.
You know what is the delay between clicking the cloak to deactivate and opening a cyno? Its about 0,2 second. Thats ur reaction window against someone who spent 2 days cloaking in ur system.
So nerfing the cloak is your position because you are worried about being dropped on via the cyno?. Does it suck having someone camp up in system yeah, do I agree with 23/7 not really, however taking the bat just to the cloaking module I donât agree with. The whole picture has to be looked at in regards to cloaks/local I believe.