Average DPS considers the wrecking hits.
Talking about crits is tenuous to the point of stupidity.
You are contradicting yourself. You will kill the BS in 3 volleys instead of 4 with +25% DPS.
Yes, doing small fries missions with golem is not the best. Hence the improvement of selecting your fit to the mission.
A very basic understanding of logic is not really useful here. Unfortunately Pyfa does not make you a good pilot.
So ? We are talking about having different fits for different missions, NOT about having only one fit for all. If anything, you are actually proving my point.
You donât actually understand maths, do you?
Yes, averages take into account wrecking hits, but on average. Actual reality never reflects the average, and will either be above or below the average. Therefore, when you are above the average, you may require fewer volleys. This is really basic stats. You should know, given that your whole argument depends on averages, that averages do not actually exist.
No you wonât. Thatâs not how maths works at all. Also 14% is not 25%.
2000 ehp, 500 damage per volley. A 25% increase in damage means three volleys get you to 1,875ehp - you still need 4 volleys. Your 25% increased damage was totally, utterly inconsequential.
Trying to twist my words just makes you look more foolish.
your point was having more then 1 marauder ⌠you never told about fittings !
sure a different marauder results in a different fitting only because of weapon types ⌠still you never said 1 ship 4 different fts âŚ
its always useful ! and you dont have any logical understanding as you proof every post you come up with
And when you are below average, you may require more volleys.
So itâs stupid to consider crits twice : once in the DPS and then another time in the volley.
This is really basic stats.
Yes, thatâs how maths work. If you do twice the DPS, you need half the time to kill the same target - if the target has enough HP.
1501 ehp, 500 damage per volley. You need 4 volleys. A 25% increase in damage means 3 volleys are all you need.
However you are correct, that this is not good for small targets. Thatâs why I wrote
⌠would be prefer the hail vargur with almost perfect tracking and almost perfect dps !
on the other side you have the rage golem with the bad application and halfes the DPS ! ( number is just assuming )
at this point only 0,1% more dmg will lead in 1 less volley ⌠oO
25 % increas would do 625 dmg and is overkill âŚ
and still 25% are not 14 % as you first mentioned
No, the other side is golem with perfect application.
Even better : if the target has 501 EHP, getting +25% DPS actually means you kill the target +100% faster (need one volley instead of two). Still only +25% speed on average.
Remember how we were talking about averages? Your example will only work in about 1% of cases, having almost no effect on average efficiency.
My example works on 50% of cases (if you scaled up the damage to ensure 3 volleys, so more than 25%), having a dramatic effect on average efficiency.
So if thereâs 50 enemies in a room, you save on average 1 volley every two rooms. With my example, if thereâs 50 enemies in a room, you save 25 volleys per room.
No it gives on average +25% speed to kill the target.
You took a very specific example and made it a general case, I did the same. Just to show how foolish you are.
On average, an increase of DPS by 25% means 20% less time to kill. Sometimes more, sometimes less - itâs an average.
My point being, that the +18.7% minimum DPS increase from the golem against BS(itâs actually higher against non-angels : 18.7 is the minimum) translates in an average 18.7% increase in killing speed. Some missions you can do them in 3 bastion cycles in a vargur and 2 bastion cycles in a golem. In that case itâs good to switch to golem - you save a cycle.
And sometimes you will have lower completion times using a paladin. Or a kronos. itâs up to you to find out what is the best fit for the mission.
Maybe vargur is the best on average. Does not mean that you canât improve your income by switching fit depending on the mission.
but you wanna tell us to switch ships for different missions whats reals stupid advice ⌠there would be no improvement to do this ! maybe on BS a rage golem hit with 2 cylce and then you need 2 extra cycles for every other ship means your not faster ⌠its all about apllication and a golem cant applicate as good as a turret ship can if NPC´s flying a streight line to you !
its more then just your DPS numbers ! they do nothing by itself if you cant controle everything else !
Oh man, I donât really know what part youâre not getting but thatâs not right at all.
My example isnât âvery specificâ itâs quite generic, the damage number and ehp donât actually matter because both have a range. if you set the lower range to 1501 (as you did) and you make a reasonable assumption that as many enemies will have the same variance in the other direction then your upper limit is 2499. If you also assume that damage varies (because weâre talking averages) and it varies equally above and below the average, then adjusting damage to consistently hit right in the middle (2000) gives you 50% effectiveness from your damage increase, to get 100% you have to increase your damage to consistently hit 2499, and if youâre only consistently hitting 1501 youâre as close to zero impact as you can be.
The Vargur isnât the best on average. Thatâs the whole point. It makes such a vanishingly small difference that itâs meaningless.
Picking a marauder with an average damage difference of whatever % - lets call it 20% is meaningless. You have only accounted for raw damage and rat-specific resists. Resists are the last thing applied to damage in the damage calculation. You havenât accounted for damage application at all. You havenât accounted for missile flight time (and wasted volleys that are in flight when the target dies. You havenât accounted for server ticks. You havenât accounted for travel times (they all have different velocities and an MJD isnât always a sound option).
Youâve taken the most basic misrepresentation of how the game works and used it to spin a story about mission efficiency that doesnât actually reflect how the simulation works at all.
Remember youâre not hitting a structure here youâre hitting targets that die in a very small number of hits. Small % adjustments dont matter.
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I juse all 4 Marauders at maximum Skill and with the exact same fitting / implant conditions (Pure T2/named fit, full rack of 5% application+damage implants).
damage/application implants on a Marauder, especially in HighSec, are always worth it. Because a) you are never going to lose them, not even in a gank, because you can have a brick-tanked Assaultfrig in the EscapeBay (in my case a 45k eHP Harpy - before AssaultDamageControlâŚ) and b) implant-benefits give an increase in percent. And 5% more damage from the already high base-damage of a marauder is a real big bonus in raw damage.
One doesnât need any tanking implants (asklepian/crystal), I recommend a Genolution Set because it makes fitting very comfortable, especially the CPU boost (pure T2 fit eats up a lot more CPU than factionstuff). Also the additional cap/recharge doesnât hurt and the +3 learnings is on top. Price for them is also okay. HG-Hydra set could be considered for the Golem.
Paladin is fastest on average, hands down, Vargur close second. The insane ability to apply Scorch DPS over a 100km and instantly switch between Scorch and Conflag as ships come into high-damage-ammo range cannot be trumped by any other ship. There are very few examples (Gurista Assault) where a Blaster-Kronos is slightly faster because most targets spawn close or the groups are large enough that an MJD jump and razing them down with Void is worth it. Same for Golem, The Assault is imho the only mission where a Rage Golem can beat a Paladin, because the Golem can shoot into the resist hole and most targets are pretty close or can be directly jumped at. Other high-ehp missions (Blockade, Worlds Collide), the Paladin wins by a huge margin, even over a Vargur.
Golem is simply meh. Yes, I use the high-Range Rage-Torp version and barely fit any tank. Almost every slot goes right into applcation. Still, the delayed damage and the inevitable application reduction on elite frigs just hurt too much. Even while having more Raw DPS on paper and even with always hitting the resist hole, the mission runtimes (full clears) are often worse than those of the turret marauders. It definitely feels less powerful against groups of normal NPCs, except when shooting a Drifter BS in C5/C6, where it really shines above all the other three Marauders.
instead of having different clones and ships for different missions I would simply establish 4 bases on 4 different stations and work for 4 different agents. This allows you to fly a Pala in Amarr space, a Vargur in Minmatar space, a Golem in Caldari space and a Kronos in Gallente space. Not only it is entertaining, you also can have damage implants for each weapon systems in the clones and grind LPs for different factions, to exchange them when the item-prices are high. It also allows you to instantly switch area in case some gankers/harassment guys show up in one.
From memory, also damsel(zaz canât be painted but the EHP is mainly in the station so the loss of applied DPS is not high), pirate invasion. And another one with BS drone, not sure. Basically, those where you only have BS to kill - though maybe pirate invasion vs sansha the paly can do better, did not check.
I agree that in general the golem is the worst (before it was the kronos). I think it could (not sure if balanced) lose a bonus to DPS and gain a bonus to explosion radius
No it does not. IF those matter, then there is nothing your fit can do to prevent the delay, and therefore the DPS lost to excess salvos.
Same for application, if you need to switch ammos you are already losing DPS.
AFAIK the only way to circumvent those are with adaptive gameplay.
