it was the sub caps(namely T3fleets) that were what lead to the demand for refit to be nerfed not capitals. dreads and particularly triage had been using it for years with little complaint. at the same time you can still argue it was partly do to capitals as the new capital mods definitely played a big part in the choice
1 Like
Well more range on tractor would be good.
3 Likes
Just drop it into any L4 pocket at point blank range, aggro the **** out of the entire pocket and fall asleep the bastion module makes you nearly impossible to kill. The only fear you have in bastion isnt the 6 aggro groups you have shooting you right now but a DC which will end you but nothing in this room even in their sum total is even going to scratch your butt.
And that is precisely how they are OP already.
1 Like
There is a huge difference between a ship with a bastion module and one without a bastion module. You dismissively pass off the bastion modules impact on how powerful marauders are with this statement, "
But im sorry that is like saying take away all the offense and defense of a capital ship and it is nothing special. You dont get to dismiss a crucial part of a ships capability and then go on about your merry way. Yes other ships can run an L4 faster than a marauder but that isn’t what the marauders add to the game. The marauders PLUS the bastion module add the ability to sleep through an L4 no matter how many enemies you agrroed and no matter what type of jamming attempts they may be trying to make and just keep on mowing down the bad guys. While the rattlesnake can do this to some degree it is not the equal of a marauder in its defensive capability. The golem in particular can run any L4 without even having any drones on board because there is no essential need for them when you fly a golem, they are a nice option at best, this makes the golem the easiest ship to run an L4 in bar none.
The sum total of its beast-mode defense vs all forms of attack you will find in an L4 and the ease with which you can mow down enemies is what makes the marauders OP already, especially the golem.
1 Like
Necromancy, yes it’s true…
Bring back dead threads make us spew…
Necromancy we’re not very fond of you…
1 Like
No I did not. I literally said, and you quoted it, it’s the bastion module that can make marauders shine.
I see three problems here:
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removing all offense and defense modules on a capital is NOT the equivalent of removing a single bastion module on a marauder.
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Yes, I do get to dismiss the bastion module, since it is an optional module. I flew a Kronos before bastion even existed, and it was a great ship even back then. And after reading many forum posts, I dare say, most mission runners don’t use bastion module the way you describe, if at all. As powerful as bastion is, it has a serious drawback which can’t be dismissed. You cannot warp, or move, and the bastion timer alone probably has cost many a pilot their marauder, cause you can’t always get away in time if you’re locked down.
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you changed your argument from marauders are OP in general, to now marauders are OP for LV4 missions. Many posts for this topic was referencing PvP aspects of marauders as well. Mission running is not the sole judge of a ship. Granted, marauders seemed designed for mission running when first released, but they have expanded their roles greatly since then. Also, there are many OP ships for mission running, and I don’t even have to look to the rattlesnake. A dual rep Hyperion has nearly the tank of a single rep bastioned marauder. Way OP for mission running, and therefore not the best way to judge ships.
As for mission running, you forgot about Blood Angels and neuts. Marauders rely on active tank. I nearly lost my Kronos cause I got lazy and didn’t read mission guide about neuts in mission. Let me tell you, 45 sec left on bastion timer seems like an eternity when you are trying to spam warp while capped out and locked down… So no, marauders do have a kryptonite in missions, and are not invincible.
While questioning whether a ship is OP or not is fair in this thread, there is a bigger picture involved. There is a huge gap between battleships and dreadnoughts to be filled, and marauders could be the start of remedying that. And again, T1 battleships got a boost recently, so it is fair to ask if T2 battleships are due as well.
1 Like
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you took to literally, it was stated to make a point which you apparently missed in its entirety.
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No, you do not get to dismiss the bastion module (you not using a bastion module when the ship makes special use of them isnt the same as the ship not having them available) or to put it another way if you ****-fit a ship that isnt a reason to buff that ship because it now under performs.
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The pve and pvp uses both have to balance you cannot have the marauder class becoming even more of a monster in the pve arena and ignore this fact.
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There is no battleship that can do what marauders can do in defense, you can theory craft any battleship that doesn’t have a bastion module and quick MJD cooldowns all day and the result will be the same the marauder class wins at defense every time.
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I note that you ‘nearly’ lost your kronos to nuets, while you were napping at your keyboard, i would suggest that if you let any ship go on in combat with NPCs while you go take a nap the outcome is predetermined. Your deficiencies in game play are not balancing issues.
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Your claim that some ship needs put into the place between battleships and dreadnoughts and this is ‘the bigger picture’ isn’t in fact., it is just your opinion and nothing else.
1 Like
Id love to see some damage increase when in bastion mode. Would make the Marauder like a lil miny dread, so cute n all
maybe extended range on smart bombs, that would be nice
3 Likes
You’re the one who made the ridiculous claim. Your deficiencies in making a coherent argument or a good analogy are not my problem and irrelevant to the topic.
While I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt that you would make a coherent arguement on the cons of a balance pass, I see the rest of your points lack any evidence and are just as meaningless as your initial post. You are either trolling or lack reading comprehension.
This thread is about a balance pass on marauders. The devs will either grant one or not, and even tho my opinion is likely meaningless to them, I will still argue for it.
2 Likes
+1
More dps is a thing
3 Likes
Im glad you agree. I kinda feel the Vargur lacks in the dps area. Wondering what would be a good base DPS for this vessel? What would be a feasible number for Maraurders?
Say if on average they all get like around 1200 dps, 1500 dps…
is that too much?
1 Like
If bastion was to be two way module ie vargur get 5% dmg boost and 2.5% tracking boost when not in bastion i could maybe possibly stand behind that kinda buff otherwise cant see how anything else can be crammed in a bastion mod.
They are farming tool by design and they do that well any buff to bastion isnt warranted at all they tank game mechanic they dish out gank as well…what ya want more.
3 Likes
Considering I can get about 1700ehp/sec rep omnitank on my cap stable Kronos (with still one damage mod, all T2, except for one Corpus X-Type LAR as bling), two marauders could slug it out till downtime and never scratch the paint really. And from what I understand, pvpers tend to use more bling, as it is currently a 1.5bil+ isk hull anyways.
I would say a 50% increase in dps would be feasible. Now keep in mind, a damage buff would be a controversial matter, and NOT requested by the OP. Also that figure is based on math for a particular scenario, and really just my humble opinion. No one has any idea if the marauders deserve a damage buff except the devs. With that said, I wouldn’t turn a damage buff down… 
On an interesting side note, the first iron clad ships battled to such a stalemate without being able to breach each other’s hulls. It wasn’t till years later when armor piercing shells were invented that iron clads could actually fight each other.
3 Likes
Im not sure what others opinions are or what not, but I think I should be able to get this to fit.
[Paladin, 21]
Corpus C-Type Heavy Energy Nosferatu_1
Corpus C-Type Heavy Energy Nosferatu_1
Bastion Module I_2
True Sansha Large EMP Smartbomb_1
Mega Pulse Laser II_2, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II_2, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II_2, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II_2, Conflagration L
Tracking Computer II_2, Optimal Range Script
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery_2
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery_2
Large Micro Jump Drive_1
Corpus X-Type Large Armor Repairer_2
Corpus X-Type Large Armor Repairer_2
Corpum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane_2
Corpum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane_2
Imperial Navy Heat Sink_2
Imperial Navy Heat Sink_2
Imperial Navy Heat Sink_2
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II_2
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II_2
Federation Navy Hobgoblin, 5a
seems to lack some powergrid and cpu. Maybe some cap too, just something I noticed as I was playing with some fit theory
Kronos suffers too
[Kronos, 1]
True Sansha Large EMP Smartbomb_2
Corpus C-Type Heavy Energy Nosferatu_2
Corpus C-Type Heavy Energy Nosferatu_2
Bastion Module I_2
Neutron Blaster Cannon II_2, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II_2, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II_2, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II_2, Void L
Tracking Computer II_2, Optimal Range Script
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery_2
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery_2
Large Micro Jump Drive_1
Capacitor Power Relay II_2
Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer_2
Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer_2
Corpum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane_2
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer_2
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer_2
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer_2
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II_2
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II_2
1 Like
oh that looks juicy. I ran a VG marauders group with friends a while back. It’s fun to have everyone warp in, plop down and smash Sansha’s little mind controlled slaves with a couple paladins 4-5 kronos’ and a vargur or two without having to make sure our logi were there and awake.
2 Likes
This kind of buff is stupid enough that CCP will thankfully never even consider it.
1 Like
[Kronos, 1]
True Sansha Large EMP Smartbomb_2
Corpus C-Type Heavy Energy Nosferatu_2
Corpus C-Type Heavy Energy Nosferatu_2
Bastion Module I_2
Neutron Blaster Cannon II_2, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II_2, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II_2, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II_2, Void L
Tracking Computer II_2, Optimal Range Script
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery_2
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery_2
Large Micro Jump Drive_1
Corpus X-Type Large Armor Repairer_2
Corpum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane_2
Corpum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane_2
Reactive Armor Hardener
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer_2
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer_2
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer_2
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II_2
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II_2
Sorry, only had time to play with Kronos fit. The fit you posted had about 2400ehp/sec rep, but power grid was overdrawn by 2000 I think. Switching to a single Corpus LAR and working on resistances up to 85%ish got similar ehp/sec rep and higher total ehp. The power grid was still overdrawn by 20-30, but could maybe be fixed with implant or playing with nos’s. There was still a slight exp hole too, but that can maybe be played with too.
I like your concept tho, lots of neut resist. I’ll have to try it out.
1 Like
In my limited time for my previous post, I may have misunderstood your comment. If you were saying that the marauders could use a power grid buff, I think you may have a case.
T2 versions of T1 ships seem to get a 10-20% boost to PG, but marauder PG got nerfed up to -25%. It could be argued it’s balancing cause marauders only have 4 turrets. But bhaalgorn has 4 turrets and has a higher PG than Paladin, but on the other hand the nightmare has a smaller PG, but gets a much higher role bonus to turret damage. The comparisons are inconclusive.
So if indeed you were saying marauders could use a buff to fitting stats, that could be worth exploring.
2 Likes
I’m not sure what’s going on with those Kronos fits. They’re not PvP - but they’re definitely not PvE, either. A MJD isn’t going to put you into optimal for Void - which based on this fit has probably a 20km maximum range (when in Bastion). My blaster fit hits out to 71km and I use a MWD to get around.
2 Likes
I am suggesting this yes. Each marauder has an issue with cpu and pwergrid… Ive fits for pve and pvp varying from vanilla outfits for ratting or general pvp to specialized roles and each suffer terribly. Theres only a few ways you can get the fits to work, I feel like each marauder has a role its best at, but they wont cross fit roles well.
I think the marauders are perfect for pve AND pvp respectively.
Single tank vargur and golem out tanks a single tank kronos… I can get over 2k dps tan cap stable on my vargur but suffer to achieve the same outcome with the kornos, without having to drastically modify the core concept of the ship, ie, no cap stability, needing cap boosters maybe, no utilities like nos or neuts, no SB…
I could list specifics if needed but I thought Id just mention a few things I see off the top of my head.
It really depends on how the ships fit, and its bonuses, and how that all applies directly to what it is you are doing exactly.
I have a single rep Kronos that lacks the tank vs a single rep vargur… its about 500 dps less tank and any changing will make it terribly unstable. The rep should be near the same on marauders. I can for example fit a tripple asb vargur, but can i fit a dual rep paladin or kronos? no… not with out the fitting being off, the cap being terrible, or the fit being compromised by having to compensate elsewhere in the fit. Im not saying by how much, but each marauder needs some cap and recharge, some power grid and cpu…
Golem really doesnt need a mwd, its missiles carry the distance, you only have to be in range of the missile itself. the vargur lacks in range sometimes, so it needs a mwd to get in close, same for hte kronos, even worse in fact, because of its limited range over the vargur… I am talking about using close range high dmg ammo in this example. the paladin is kinda sitting nicely with range imo. for the c4 sites, the sleepers are usually around 100 km away +/- 25 km, which for me a burst or two of the mwd after you mjd is all ya need. so kronos needs mwd and mjd in one example. For pve I like to use nos, for pvp, or of I pve and expect pvp, which I usually do, I like to fit neuts… cant fit nos or neuts really with most fits and add a SB… the cap suffers terribly. So does the fits.
A skilled pilot CAN land a kronos or any marauder within 5km of suspected target and apply max dmg, … but the kronos needs cap stability, because I need to remove one cap battery, for a mwd… I need the mjd, and I want the last mid slot for util, either web or grapler or point, or tracking computer, what have you. in the lows just dps and tank and maybe a cap power relay…
heres a couple more that wont fit. Id like to see dual prop cap battery fits with heavy neuts a things… I have a dual web dual heavy neut golem, id love to see work as well. they are mixed from pvp and pve and not in any order: they are for special or general roles… just fyi and please take with a grain of salt, you may not see the intention behind the fit, but I do. cheers.
[Golem, 1]
True Sansha Large EMP Smartbomb_1
Corpus C-Type Heavy Energy Nosferatu_2
Corpus C-Type Heavy Energy Nosferatu_2
Bastion Module I_2
Torpedo Launcher II_2, Scourge Javelin Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II_2, Scourge Javelin Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II_2, Scourge Javelin Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II_2, Scourge Javelin Torpedo
Republic Fleet Target Painter_2
Missile Guidance Computer II_2, Missile Precision Script
Pithum A-Type EM Ward Amplifier_2
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field_2
Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster_2
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery_2
Large Micro Jump Drive_1
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System_2
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System_2
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System_2
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System_2
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II_2
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II_2
[Kronos, 1]
True Sansha Large EMP Smartbomb_2
Corpus C-Type Heavy Energy Nosferatu_1
Corpus C-Type Heavy Energy Nosferatu_1
Bastion Module I_2
Neutron Blaster Cannon II_2, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II_2, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II_2, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II_2, Void L
Tracking Computer II_2, Optimal Range Script
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery_2
500MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive_1
Large Micro Jump Drive_1
Capacitor Power Relay II_2
Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer_2
Corelum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane_2
Corpum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane_2
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer_2
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer_2
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer_2
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II_2
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II_2
again to add, the kronos really needs dual reps… same for the paladins, while the vargur and golem seem to work with one rep…
just to keep around 2k dps tank and above… cap stable… makes it hard to fit much else.
EDIT: another idea, if the vargur can run c5 sites… so should the rest of the marauders. 
2 Likes