[March] The Monitor Flag Cruiser

[Nevyn_Auscent]

The problem with this ship is that it breaks all good design rules.
If you have to add lots of special restrictions and features to make something work, it’s a bad idea.
Now look at what they’ve done to try and make this ship work, it’s a bad idea.

And it doesn’t really affect headshotting, because you have LESS EHP than a command ship can have, less EHP than if you brick tank your Battleship rather than DPS fit it…
So there already exist a bunch of options that would give you similar survivability in the subcap range.
Ok, I guess if you are on a cruiser roam and worried about getting headshot, and don’t want to fly a brick tanked T3 to keep up… Oh look, there’s another good high EHP option we already have.

If headshotting is such a problem they should just fix the whole instant alpha mechanic because it sucks for anyone to have their day ended instantly. It just sucks double for the FC. But doesn’t mean it’s fine to just alpha anyone else off the grid for their game experience, generally our best memories of fights are ones where you have time to desperately try things. Win or lose you got to engage in the fight meaningfully. Alpha fights don’t really give that if you are an early target.

[Cindy_the_Sewer]

Wait…

So, your game development strategy has always been that player made psuedo-exploits like pulling concord, insta-undock points, webbing alts used to insta-warp a freighter, etc, etc. is not only to be allowed but lauded as player based game content creation and at the same time you now are saying the simple and sensible strategy of shooting the enemy fleet commander is basically an exploit that while you wont name it as such, you are coding in a counter to this very reasonable combat strategy that will; for all intents and purposes, nullify fleet commander head-shotting.

CCP please pick a development standard and stick to it so we at least have some basic framework as to what we should expect from you concerning core game play mechanics.

Either don’t make this ship or code in very, very, very serious counters to all those pseudo-exploits the game already has in it. For instance, a ship that can legally web and point any freighter any time any place instantly, said ship can also generate a light-year wide web/point to stop insta-undocks, If concord gets pulled you get a button pop up that lets you insta-safe dock at the nearest NPC station, etc, etc for all the other player made psuedo-exploits that easily feel far more like exploits in need of being stomped out of existence then common sense strategy of shooting the enemy ship of your choice and reasonable expecting it to die during a combat engagement.

It has always been a mantra of the pvp types that if you are dying that is a problem YOU need to find a way to solve and that you should not expect nor receive help from CCP.

You are rubbing salt into the wounds of every player ever to want more protection from pvp’ers and got nothing from you and whom received mockery from the very people you are about to help solve a problem that by their own tired mantra, THEY should solve themselves.

[Cindy_the_Sewer]

@Suitonia

It has 30m sig so it’s hard to headshot it with missiles/drones and large artillery, the resistances also make it hard to apply to with medium artillery because you can’t paint it up

Good thing the put in a counter to all the OP missile damage that always seems to dominate large scale pvp.

[Arrendis]

@Rhino_Sheka_Zinbar

So far, the only complaints are from people who reserve the right to end content early because they might be losing by headshotting. I support this ship, I think it should live.

Are you kidding? This ship won’t even do what it’s advertised as doing. It’ll tank less than the CS it’s designed to match, because the Command Ship’s tank matches the fleet’s Logistics. Half of this thing’s tank is 1-and-done. Sure, it’s got a tiny sig, but that really won’t be enough to save it—it’s not going to be moving at the speeds a Scalpel moves, or it’ll be leaving the rest of its fleet behind. It’s sig isn’t that much smaller than an AB armor cruiser (Guardian after boosts comes in at like 70m already, less w/Halos). Worse, drop a squad of half a dozen ECM burst Claws on your logi before you open fire on this thing, and watch that tiny sig delay your chances of getting reps.

And all that is after you’ve spent 6 months training for just this ship, when you could’ve shaved off at least 2 of those months to get into a Command Ship. After all, you’ve already got most of what you need for boosting.

No, the complaints aren’t from people who like headshotting. I’m a dedicated Logistics pilot, and speaking as fleet logi, this ship is crap.

[Cindy_the_Sewer]

@Lazarus_Telraven

…its the fact that if your FC gets headshot the fight 9/10 times will just end with one side disengaging and eventually after the FC gets headshot enough times he decides its not worth the effort and quits FCing/the game.

This is EXACTLY what should happen if your FC isnt as good as the enemy FC. Also, if your FC gets frustrated and quits FCing or quits the game entirely because he cannot handle losing, that is his problem.

HTFU or GTFO, that is the way of EVE and if it doesnt suit your FC because he isnt proficient at being an FC he is free to quit FCing and / or quit the game and in either case i will shed not a single tear at his departure from the field of combat or the game in its entirety if he chooses to quit EVE.

(full disclosure) I removed some of the poster’s comment as it isnt relevant to what what i had to say, feel free to read the entire post if you please.

[Arrendis]

The idea of you lecturing Laz is about as hilarious as the Syndicate alt trying to tell Manny how it’s done. +1 for absurdity.

[Cindy_the_Sewer]

@Greygal

But when you headshot the FC and subsequent backup FCs, you not only deny us the good fight, you deny YOUR OWN fleet the good fight. There are some groups/alliances that do this so often, we simply don’t roam to their systems anymore; we don’t bring their line members fun and good fights, because a few putzes think head-shotting the FC is fun.

You assume you know what the other guy thinks is a ‘good fight’, his definition must be quite a bit different if head-shotting an FC is a tactic he likes using. YOU do not get to determine what constitutes a ‘good fight’ any more than some random miner does when he gets insta-popped while mining Veldspar in highsec.

That you no longer patrol his region of space may have been exactly his reason for head-shotting you in the first place and, if so, mission accomplished, he won and you lost (at least that is how he will see it).

I dont claim to know why any FC chooses to head-shot another FC but I do know that your assumptions about what other FCs consider a ‘good fight’ and your assumptions about his goal being ‘good fights’ in the first place are dubious to the point of irrelevance.

[elitatwo]

@Cindy_the_Sewer

consider a ‘good fight’

The only definition of a good fight is where the outcome is unclear until it is over.

If the outcome is clear before anyone gets into position or a target lock is called a gank, nothing less.

[Cindy_the_Sewer]

@Manfred_Sideous

I and some of the games most experienced FCs are all enthusiastic about this ship.

Your collective enthusiasm for a ship that makes your position easier to play is surprising in what way exactly?

There are hundreds (thousands?) of rorqual pilots that loved the rorqual when it farmed like 5 exhumers but their, “collective enthusiasm”, for it being that way actually emphasized even MORE that it needed a huge nerf.

I find myself thinking the very same thing about your, ‘collective enthusiasm’ for this ship since it benefits you so much regardless that at its core it is anathema to EVE’s core principal that tactics matter not pseudo-invulnerable ships classes.

I will add that i make all my isk farming in a rorqual which is also anathema to EVEs core value that ships should be destructible when a reasonable number of people want it dead, so im hoping further rorqual nerfs are in the making.

The core difference between you and I is that i look beyond what benefits me and ask myself what is best for EVE, with no regard for the fact that is what is best for eve might be seriously detrimental to my own chosen forms of game play.

Lastly, it is the responsibility of your, “collective FCs”, to either keep themselves alive with the very capable options currently available in-game or make back up plans for when you die.

If a major military power conducted war the way you apparently choose to do, then killing one person would disable a nations entire defense. This doesnt happen because back up plans are made and back plans to those back up plans are also made.

In short, I think you are not as good an FC as you imagine because your battle plan shows a serious weakness and yet you keep on using it.

p.s. Since you are so fond of slamming people by looking up their killmails I will inform you that i have zero experience as a fleet commander and yet, if i planned a battle, i certainly would not make myself a single point of failure for my entire fleet. So then, though I have never lead so much as a single fleet, I’m already apparently much better at it than you.

p.p.s. I of course mean this…“With all due respect…”.

[Cindy_the_Sewer]

@elitatwo

The only definition of a good fight is where the outcome is unclear until it is over.

If the outcome is clear before anyone gets into position or a target lock is called a gank, nothing less.

As i disagreed with the other poster, so shall i disagree with you. You and any number of like minded players do not constitute a collective that gets to determine what is and what is not a ‘good fight’.

You make faulty assumptions that the entire EVE player base has agreed to some definition of what constitutes a, good fight. I, on the other hand, can provide definitive and indisputable proof to support my own contention that no such consensus has been reached because i myself believe a, “good fight”, is any in which my side of the conflict won.

Be it by overwhelming numbers, being a better FC, head-shotting my oppositions FC, DDoSing the server, I personally dont care how my side wins, so long as they do. That is my definition of a good fight. I make no claim that any other person holds this view but so long as i do your assumption is inherently wrong.

[elitatwo]

I do not care what you think or believe.

My assumption does not have faults, it is very clear.

@Cindy_the_Sewer

Be it by overwhelming numbers, being a better FC, head-shotting my oppositions FC, DDoSing the server, I personally dont care how my side wins, so long as they do.

Only blobbh muppets and multi-account input broadcasting one would say that.

By definition you should be banned for even suggesting what you think.

[Cindy_the_Sewer]

@Ravana_729

The solution is intended for FC’s who are known by their name alone. When they are in a fight they get headshot because the other FC will know their name and wants to get them on their killboard. It isn’t just about FC’s.

When a famous FC goes down, it disrupts the whole fleet, even if there is a backup FC.

That disappoints hundreds of people. This change effects thousands across the whole game, due to the fact that these FC’s are people who everyone wants to fly with. Even if a backup FC comes forward, still, it can upset players who have been looking forward to flying with their favorite streamer or CEO or whatever. And getting headshot all the time is a frustrating experience for the FC’s who have become famous. I know the feeling because I get headshot all the time, for different reasons, and it kind of sucks. I am good enough that I usually get away but it can be annoying. An FC does not have the option of aligning out and making an escape as I do.

I am in a position in the game right now where the fleets I am on will probably never need a monitor, but I can see why it’s healthy for the game.

You said so much that was so right. Exactly the way EVE should work but you messed it all up when you added that last line that says, "I am in a position in the game right now where the fleets i am on will probably never need a monitor but i can see why it’s healthy for the game.

The death of your FC may have a detrimental effect on your fleet, it should and that is why killing him/her is such a vital tactic that needs to remain unchanged.

You speak of the fleets moral dropping, perfect this is just like in real life. It is your corps / alliances job to keep moral up no matter the current status of the fight, it is part of being a great leader, removing this degrades the game, let the best leader win and the runner up go home and rethink his strategies.

[Lothar_Mandrake]

There were two major takeaways from the CSM feedback during the summit:

1. More change is better, even if it’s small

Who told you this on the CSM? I want to know who not to vote for next time.
The ONLY good changes are small ones. Big ones scare the crap out of us.
(example: new jump fatigue changes, 'nuff said)

[Arrendis]

From what I know of the folks on the CSM, that was probably more a ‘look, it’s better to make smaller, incremental changes more frequently than to make giant lurching ones once every three years. Iterate, measure the effects, and revise.’

[Lothar_Mandrake]

agreed, but the phrase “More change is better?”. Ummm, no.
Should have been - 1. Less change is better, more often.

[Arrendis]

Change is the only constant, as it were… still, if we could get to where the changes are regular, measured, and we could trust they wouldn’t be abandoned in a half-finished state… then they’d give us a feeling of consistent evolutionary progress, not just chaos, you know?

[Lothar_Mandrake]

I have gotten to know quite a few Devs, they are not stupid and some really do care about capsuleers (aka pilots). They got “Build Your Dreams, Wreck their Dreams” down pat. Don’t know why this “small baby steps” thing eludes them?

[Arrendis]

If I had to guess? Because there aren’t enough of them, and they aren’t given enough time to follow a few specific projects. Too many things on too few people. CCP needs to hire more.

[Tragot_Gomndor]

Well guys… that ship cant hurt you… litteraly…

[Corraidhin_Farsaidh]

I’m still struggling with the idea that in large fleet battles in supposedly the most dangerous space in EvE the FC being headshot results in :

Is this really the case?