So some ships have lots of base armor and therefore it makes sense to use armor tanking for them. In a combat ship, this usually leaves the mid slots for utility slots. In a T1 industrial going around high sec, most combat utility like jammers aren’t going to do anything useful. We want speed, cargo capacity, and tank. So a propulsion module makes sense, but you can’t stack 3 afterburners. Shield extenders seem to be a logical choice, but everyone says mixing shield and armor tanking just isn’t good. So that leaves… uhhh?
Which T1 industrial are you armor tanking?
Apart from the Gallente and Amarr T2 DST, I wouldn’t armour tank any industrial. You want put your tank in the mid slots instead so you have your low slots free for all the things that you want on an industrial: extra cargo space, warp core stabilization and more agility.
The Gallente and Amarr T2 DST because of their heavy armour bonuses and slot layout are the only exception, but these ships have respectively 3 and 2 mid slots, which is used either for (multiple) propmods or cap boosters to keep the active tank modules online longer.
Sigil. Armor is way higher than shield on this one. I’d rather have a Nereus buuuut I don’t have a Nereus. I put 1 for warp core, 1 for agility, and 1 for cargo space, and the rest of the lows were tanking modules. Which leaves me stumped as “well, what is an indsutrial even going to put in a mid slot if it’s an armour tank”.
Looking at the Sigil, the way I would fit it is:
[Sigil, Sigil fit shield?] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Warp Core Stabilizer II Inertial Stabilizers II Inertial Stabilizers II 10MN Afterburner II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Multispectrum Shield Hardener II Compact Interdiction Nullifier Improved Cloaking Device II Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
It has comparable EHP with an armour fit that I could make for it, except it’s much more agile and warp core stabbed.
(It’s just a fit I quickly threw together, you can optimise it for your own purpose. Swap for example the power diagnostic systems (which only add a little EHP) for cargohold or more agility.)
Are we using these for hauling? Because if so all you need are mwd and cloak. No matter how much tank you have you’ll never have enough if you’re caught.
Quoted for truth.
Tank is a fools errand in indies. No matter how much armor the mouse has, if the cat catches him he is toast!
Also, would you willingly take a yield/capacity hit for extra tank?
This pundit thinks no
(Editted as I thought OP was about industrial ships but turns out its about Industrial class)
You’re flying a T1 Industrial. Nothing is going to save you from a gank. Absolutely nothing…
The armour tanked T1 industrials give you a choice between bigger tank or bigger hold - the shield industrials aren’t quite as flexible - but it’s a fairly moot difference. They are well balanced between the Empires.
As others have pointed out, T1 industrials are going to die to any half competent attack - the tank is often just so you feel you made the effort in skewing the gankers profit/loss calculation. Assuming he bothers of course!
The consideration for DSTs, such as the Impel, are different. You don’t bother with cargo hold size as you’ve a 60,000m³ or so Fleet Hanger that modules and rigs don’t change.
As if tank is going to save any industrial ship that isn’t under a capital umbrella or a properly fit Orca not at war in Highsec.
I mean, I’d feel slightly more smug about getting ganked if his stuff is worth 6 times the combined value of my modules and cargo so… if it makes me feel good that works.
So with an armor tank (or maybe I won’t do that since someone suggested a Sigil build with low inertia and a shield tank that seems to work as well as an armor tank), the mid slots is the mystery.
The rules of “don’t waste slots” and “don’t mix shield and armor tanks” would clash, which is probably why I guess armor tanking a T1 industrial just doesn’t work even on a ship that looks like it would work.
That’s one approach. I at least had the satisfaction of having sold one of my gankers the ammunition he used to kill me…
…are more guidelines for people who haven’t delved deep into the dark arts.
It’s not uncommon to leave a slot empty if there’s nothing sensible that could go there or the PG/CPU fitting of the ship is tight. An Impel has two high-slots: once you have a cloak fitted, there’s nothing worthwhile to put in the other slot - no weapon, maybe a neut or nos? that’s fitting capacity, maybe a tractor beam? not for what I use the ship for. A similar thing goes through missions ships that have utility high slots - you may or may not fit them depending on need.
Fill it for a reason and understand that reason.
The general advice of “don’t mix tanks” is again sound in 99% or more cases. You want to avoid being “big and slow” because that makes damage application against you much more effective (you are easier to hit). As a general feature: Adding shields makes you bigger, adding armour makes you slower. Lets not have the worst of both worlds. Have you noticed as well that modules that make you faster also reduce armour amount? a reversal of the trade off.
There are exceptions: hardeners or resistance modules (not rigs) don’t tend to have a downside, so a big armour tank could be supplemented by improving shield protection. But if you’re looking at an active armour tank (repair based) - as many mission runners would fit - then putting a cap-recharger in the “spare” mid-slots is possibly a better option for a sustainable tank.
Yea this is pretty true. It’s rare that any amount of tank will actually save you. When it does happen, it’s usually from a brick tanked DST burning back to gate or surviving a botched gank, or a BR fitted to tank 1 tornado shot, T1 indies just dont bother tbh
sad isnt it that gankers will tell you to get good but everyone knows nothing and i mean nothing you do will protect you from the gank itself and as a new starter that must be soul destroying if you have spent your first few intial weeks mining and are on your way to cash in your first couple of weeks work
A couple of pyfa numbers (using max skills, tornado gank fit taken from zkillboard, epithal fit is my own T2 HS fit):
Volley of a Tornado: ~10k damage
Untanked Epithal: ~6k EHP
Tanked Epithal: ~35k EHP
Do bother to tank your T1 indies. A solo Tornado ganker can easily volley an untanked T1 industrial if they think your cargo is worth enough to sacrifice the Tornado.
I have been scanned by Tornados at the Jita gate multiple times while hauling PI in my Epithal. I didn’t get shot, probably for 2 reasons: the amount of PI I was carrying didn’t pay for a new Tornado and the amount of EHP didn’t allow the single Tornado to one-shot me.
Best tank is brain tank
Yeah, but it makes a bad mess when it’s hit though…
Seriously: I agree with the point - make an intelligent and risk based decision and fly thoughtfully.
Ummm what the hell are you doing that a tornado was even able to lock you in an industrial?
What fit is that? Doesn’t Zkillboard say what the victim’s fit is, not the ganker’s fit? I’m assuming the torando gank fit is no tank since anything than can fight back before CONCORD rescues them (say a Jackdaw) isn’t carrying cargo and once the latter arrives to help ships that can’t fight back (like miners and industrials), tank isn’t useful since the target won’t shoot back.
It’s not a real example, I mean how many gate camps have only 1 attacker?
Tank = Time Till Death