The complaint is that somehow people manage to still PVE successfully in WH space without local, but nullbears somehow think its too scary.
Nullbears are very entitled. Even in NPC null, people act like they own the place.
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No experience in WH space here - but I’ve heard you can close the entrances to your hole in WH space and not so much in null sec. There are also no cynos that drop a bunch of enemies right on top of your ship, they all need to be in system already.
While I do think in general WH space is more dangerous than null, you cannot just compare them one to one based on ‘null has local so it is safer’.
No, you are wrong and CCP has also made a wrong statement. The cloaking module is just too powerful period that’s the correct statement.
Which module do you know which one deactivates all other active modules when I activate it? And which active module prevents any other module from being activated? (except for the new nulifier)
Apart from the cloaking module, I can run several or other modules with other modules.
This is the simple and honest way of changing the cloaking module, inventing it for everyone and not a new structure and making cloaking so powerful.
Yeah that could work. Having a countdown timer flag in the top left corner would be helpful. However I think after a while it could become easily overlooked, especially if you’re focused on something else like sneaking up on somebody or scanning signatures. I think a button pop-up on-screen for a minute or so to remain cloaked and verify player is active would work fine.
Bottom line: this game change isn’t about stopping AFK cloakers, it’s about decloaking players for more PvP kills.
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Right. And i mentioned WH as a place ripe for the pickings for people hunting PVE ships. Isn’t it so? I mean, it’s blingy PVE fits, has no intel, has no local… seems to be the type of Null that everybody is asking. Why not hunt in WH space? It’s an honest question.
I don’t, but that’s because i’m lazy and obviously not familiar enough with poking holes.
Yea and everyone with no experience in WH keeps throwing these things around.
In some cases yes, people collapse the WH connections before farming. However that is really only in high level ones, C5-C6, and largely because they are farming with dreads. Even then a random incoming wormhole can spawn.
Below C5 it is normal to farm even with open WH connections. In many cases, especially low class like C2, you are specifically farming your static, which essentially is farming in hostile space.
So all the defensive tools you employ to stay “safe” farming in a WH translates to every other space in EVE.
Which is a strawman argument. Does it matter if you get jumped by a single guy, who you saw in local and lights a cyno, or 3 cloaky T3C and sabre that you never knew was there cloaked up until they initiate warp?
Not really, if you get caught you are pretty much dead. At least outside WH space you at least know there is a chance because you can see the guy in local.
No that is your opinion.
I don’t even know what you are getting at here? Yes the cloaking module forbids you from using anything else. So you can hide but you can’t fight etc. If anything your statement is helping to show how cloaking is less powerful. You can’t even get too close to anything. And if you are attacking, aside from a squishy stealth bomber you have a sizable targetting penalty.
No strawman argument, it’s a matter of chance.
You’re right that it doesn’t matter if 10 cloakies uncloak next to you or if those 10 cloakies just took a cyno to jump on top of you - you’re dead either way.
The difference is that in the 1st scenario 10 guys had to be together hunting for you, while in the other scenario 1 guy had to be hunting, ping for backup and drop the other 9 guys on top of you.
Scenario 2 takes hunting time of 1 guy, while scenario 1 takes hunting time of 10 guys.
If you consider a same amount of players to be spending time hunting for scenario 1 (10 guys, one fleet) vs the same amount of players hunting for scenario 2 (10 guys, with backup one ping away, which is 10 potential fleets) you’re much more likely to get dropped by a single guy who pinged for backup through his cyno, than you’re to be dropped by 10 guys who all uncloak next to you.
Either way, you’re dead. 
In my own dropping experience, we never take out a cyno hunter unless a fleet is already assembled and standing by to drop. And this generally happens after a lone hunter on a previously solo roam spots something worth dropping.
In that case it really makes no difference if the fleet is standing at range to jump the bridge or just outside standing by to jump the hole. If anything, its easier to jump the hole because no cyno is needed and they’ll have a harder time seeing us coming.
I don’t do it though, because as i said i’m lazy… Standard hunting intel procedures don’t apply to WH.
Except that assumes you need the same number of guys. The point is still that for many PVE kills in WH space you wouldn’t need 10 guys.
My general WH roaming would be me dual boxing a cloaky proteus for DPS and cloaky neut legion. That pair could easily take out a bling ratting tengu, or any number of solo ratters.
The main point I"m trying to get at is people use those the “but no cynos in WH space” to discount the local/no local argument completely. The reality is that it isn’t so different. If you rat in WH space with the expectation you will get jumped at any moment, and then use those same tactics in null, you will be at pretty much the same safety level. In fact I’d argue at a safer level in null specifically because you can see someone enter local immediately.
So if i were a hunter that is pissed off that nullsec krabs have ‘perfect’ safety because of local, i could just go to WH and hunt farmers there instead and be happy?
If that’s your jam.
More importantly if you are a nullsec krabber, please don’t keep coming up with cloak nerfs that break where cloaking works perfectly fine as intended (not necessarily directed at you).
The fact that the main defining factor between wormholes and sov null for a lot of people is whether there is local or not definitely shows how broken local really is. Then on top of that, we are getting nerfs to cloaking, not because there is a problem with cloaking but because the broken local allows “psychological warfare” on krabs in sov space.
CCP needs to fix local, not ruin legit active gameplay.
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Agree, anything other than "GREAT WORK CCP. THE CSM REALLY CAME THRU ON THIS ONE ".
is futile. Even though it is far from the truth.
Nah.
Cloaks using fuel in a system that has the “only blues may cloak”-rig, is absolutely the right approach.
It’s is the right path NOT because I say so… but because this is the only option that is fair, vibrant game-play that forces the pilots to make decisions that matter.
(thus lining up with ccp stated goals)
Yeah sure. BUT
if that “danger” is not also applied towards the ships using cloaks, then it is unfair.
If that “danger” only is represented by “not being AFK”, then it does not line up with “making decisions that matters”.
if the “danger” is only represented by not being afk & having high enough skill points… the game does not become “vibrant”.
Yeah anything other than dropping a detergent for afk-cloak campers campaigning a region, this item is garbage.
And even when there are afk-cloaky campers - in a well-populated system - this item is weak af! borderline useless.
if everyone read what I wrote, then it should be clear.
anyways. I mean.
if there was a projected effect - inside the null-system, emanating from eve server -or from a player-owned station.
…projection forced “non-blue” to be burning cloak-fuel to compensate for the projected “cloak nullification” (kinda like ancillary/booster work) and all ships had some kind of fuel bay, that would allow them to be “compensating” for x amount of time.
“projected effect” comes from pyfa.
Yeah anyone farming in a capital is doing it wrong.
Also fyi; The game evolves, “in the early years of the game”?
those days are gone, stop living in the past, resistance is futile.
Well it may have been clear in your head but not necessarily elsewhere. Especially given that you can use “projected effect” in pyfa specifically to project Wormhole system effects onto a ship. So it is nowhere near clear that you were only speaking of nullsec.
I understand you don’t like ships with cloaks in the game. If you actually looked into that type of gameplay you would see that using cloaks comes with all sorts of provisos. Those ships are, in some ways (and sometimes not even subtle ways), handicapped and require more effort to pilot and use correctly. In general, cloaky ships have more vulnerabilities than normal ones on the usual attributes. Knowing how and why also allows you to figure out ways to fight them, or at the very least protect yourself from them.
But you’re right… a pve fitted ship will not be a match for a pvp fitted one, cloaked or not. Who would have thunk,
The funny part to is if you learn to fly cloaked ships in combat or even in exploration, you lose your fear of them doing other chores. Sure, there’s still a danger. But there’s always a danger coming out of cloak that the target/s might have friends handy.
When I fly something that cant fight back, I fly it like I’m after it. Paying attn has kept me alive a long time now.
I think this will just help the bots. Meh…
I have respect for cloaks, not fear.
I wish all cloak ship pilots would stop being so defensive.
I don’t like (flying) cloaked ships, for the most part, that is true. But I don’t hate them.
but don’t you dare try to convince me that a cov-op cyno is “l33t pvp”.
Cloaked ships are a niche that some enjoy and more take for granted. *(outside of wh and travel/explo)
They are fragile and have their weaknesses and “provisos” etc. (just like every god damn ship in eve!)
Yeah… ok. What’s your point?
That’s not an argument as to why there should be no “cloak-fuel for intruders” in player-owned null.
keep in mind, that the “fuel” could come from NPC-station or could be a byproduct from indy or whatever… it doesn’t have to be expensive. But it has to force the cloaked ship to plan ahead and limit active cloak-time. that’s depending of ship capabilitys/ship class
(as they should not be able to store the fuel in a deployable, nor have a safely logged refueling truck alt in a system… as the fuel decays overtime outside of a fuel bay/station container)
It’s vibrant, fun, and active gameplay, just as ccp wants.
also kinda fair to null block to be able to cloak “for free”
-seems there aren’t any perks living in null anymore so that something atleast.
First off it is kind of funny that this thread, to discuss a new deployable has basically become the AFK cloaking thread 2.0
I think this is what is generally called confession through projection.
Nor is anything you have said. The cloaking module works as intended. Now if someone wants to actively camp you while cloaked, they can. That is active gameplay, whether you like it or not.
The fact that you have to keep adding caveats and addendums to the idea is solid proof that you haven’t even thought through the solution yet. The fact that now you want them to have limited fuel, and they cannot even plan ahead with fuel reserves is also a strong indication that you don’t really want to “fix” cloaking for the good of the game. You just want it fixed for you, so you can rat in peace. (bad game design).
This is laughable.
You keep putting words in CCP’s mouths. Citations needed.
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Your interrupting his botting.