Love these new changes. I do cloaky camping for corp and alliance on 1 toon and run ratting on others, so i do like the fact that my enemies can no longer afk cloak camp me.
I’ll just pile in behind this argument and pretty much everything Algathas says.
This dynamic play-counterplay opportunity boils down to “check your screen for observatory and if there is one - push butan periodically!”.
It’s a “nuclear deterrent” mechanic that reinforces current behavioral pattern (Enemy entered system = dock up immediately!), does not address a single problem (Lackluster PvE without motivation for commitment, immediate intel for both sides - so on and so forth).
As a bonus of expanding upon emergent gameplay of EVE online, it essentially makes the only valid long-term camping ship be an unprobable stealth bomber or prospect, severely limiting both the capabilities and gameplay style.
Which means:
-
Campers that spread a lot of cheap (~50mil ISK cost) bombers in an area will require an investment of 40 million ISK per system + a Virtue Prober to find and remove. Due to their low cost they are easily replaced.
-
Campers that actively stake out targets in more expensive ships, like T3s or Recons and even actively engage solo without a hotdrop will be encouraged to switch to the above tactic, because each time they step away from the keyboard for 20 minutes they risk losing 300-500million ISK.
Which means this mechanic plainly encourages troll AFK cloaking - hell, changing the stealth bomber fitting to require Virtue implants to be scanned down is a small alteration of the current most popular hunting fittings.
TBH, I used to be a krabber, not a PVP pilot.
with the “recent” changes to crabbing (DBS system). I’m neither, I’m just an import/export guy that dabble alil with indy.
also i dont know what WCS stands for.
And if you would read my post I suggest an active cloak time at a minimum to be 45 min.
3x the observatory, 1.5x what brisc wants (he wants 30 min).
Yeah okay, I don’t know the CSM.
BUT,. what I’ve gathered about CSM is that they are to inform CCP of different types of social behavior and needs/feedback pertaining to how CCP has developed their game.
They shouldn’t be involved in developing mods/ships? as they arent game developers, they are space politics.
But well.. i thought wrong.
And here we are … with an exploitable item that goes against the stated goals of ccp.
I didn’t know there are some fits that require a Virue pod to scan down..
right now, the only point in space and time a cov-op cloak is “vulnerable” is by gates, but.. everything can be nullified.. so i guess remote sebo+2x points/scrams/webs is needed.
But still, even if it gate-keeping requires multiple accounts, I think CCP should develop the anti-cloak detergent towards a “gate pvp” scenario.. kinda like the cloak fuel idea.
this observatory needs to at the very least be re-designed.
Troll afk cloaking and botting is a natural response to the current version.
The point where they are vulnerable is also when they actually engage - and covops ships in general are really fragile. In fact, this is when they are the most vulnerable.
(Also, out of the covops line only the covert ops and T3 are nullifieable, not “everything” - stealth bombers, prospects and recons aren’t.)
bombers are fragile… recon, black-ops, t3c and sister of eve ships are not?
prospects idk about, but im guessing not super fragile?
Also, in general, one does not engage with solo cov-ops?
cov-ops are a game-style of cyno in more ships… I believe.
Also, in general, they might be fragile BUT even if they die fast, they still do more damage than they receive
and well I was thinking:
if a covert-op can become “unscannable” without scanning implants…
the whole “cloaks should have a cool-down period” is a rather bad idea as one could sit uncloaked for half a day until someone with implants come along.
yet again, the victims hafto pay a “ransom-fee” to live free of oppression
So, from a point of not “I believe” but “I know”, top to bottom and I will do my best not to write an essay -
- Bombers yes, are quite frail. They’re also really versatile.
- Recons boast usually about 30-40k EHP unless you brick tank them. They can usually take about as much damage as a T1 cruiser.
- Black Ops finally got their improved resists but their tight fitting space and lower base values (raw HP) means that it’s hard to get to the level of a T1 battleship - even while paying bling.
- T3Cs used to be actually very oppressive tank-wise, with Proteuses reaching ~100k EHP armor tanks with expanded probe launchers and tackle bonus being a thing. Since the T3 revamp, they are brought more in line with Recons - offering slightly more durability and DPS along with potential for nullification and trading in a few logistical advantages like ozone consumption and cyno cycle time.
- SoE ships are special as they can’t do Covert Cynos. They are around the range of a faction ship.
- Prospect has almost Assault Frigate levels of tank and very small sig. No offensive capacity, but a cheap and mean cyno machine.
Now, one does definitely engage with solo covops because not every situation calls for picking up the phone and engaging 15-30 people and a bridger. Picking off a lonely mining barge, figuring out someone’s Planetary Industry route and catching his haulers are definitely in the range of a lonely Force Recon.
This is your space-job: to be the Caddyshack Gopher, annoying and impossible to catch.
Some lower-end cheap ratting ships can fall prey to a well fit Arazu or Rapier and the Pilgrim can really mess with any fit that’s reliant on cap.
Because you have the advantage of “nullifying local” - not revealing whether you are active or not - you have the luxury of picking your engagement.
You are, however, in enemy space. While you do have some potential to control range and disengage, it’s nowhere near an Orthrus or Cynabal - most of the time when you get caught, backup will be there in time and you will die.
(In a 250-300mil Recon, to a Caracal, over a Procurer or Epithal kill).
So yeah - saying that “Covert Ops gameplay is just cyno in more ships” is like saying “Well, solo is just about finding someone who doesn’t understand kiting and making a kill montage” - there’s a lot of heart pounding gank-and-go moments, staking out skittish targets to finally nail a high-bling kill 
Welcome to how things are in life for probably all of human history lol.
You can call it a “ransom fee” but really you are paying for a technological upgrade allowing for greater safety. You don’t have to pay it, you can pay attention and carry on as before. Mysteriously many people seem to not have problems with “AFK cloakers” myself included. They don’t bother me whatsoever. If you play the victim you will be a victim.
Oh wait, on top of that you have a bonus in that unlike before you have the "threat’ of the observatory behind you even if you don’t pay and deploy one. So a free bonus that you shouldn’t have. Plus you lost nothing. You still have your precious local perfect Intel your alliance early warning systems, your citadel spam and tethering.
You know, let’s be honest here - Citadels weren’t that much of a change in the grand scheme of things. While currently people warp to tether on even a cheap Astra/Raitaru, they used to set up small sticks for the same reason.
Sticks were simply harder to see on the as they didn’t pop up immediately on screen.
Hmm, infinite storage, asset safety, unlimited amount of them per system, don’t need to anchor on a moon, damage cap, longer timers, free repairs, I could go on but you get the idea. They are a huge increase to safety.
The “problem” related to cloaky afk-camping is that it’s fearmongering people into NOT playing and subsequently not making isk and not enjoying the game. It is a guerilla warfare tactic and iit works to well…
With the mobile observatory, the fearmongers don’t even hafto be online to make the “target” lose isk… They can just troll an entire system with the login/out button.
I dont speak for my corp or alliance**!**
but since these observatories are rather pointless to deploy. (as they are on sisi, at least).
I highly doubt these will be a “free of charge corporation service that runs 24/7”.
Yeah but the thing is. CCP has claimed they want to develop EVE into a fair game.
also pls note that this is not real life, its a game, its meant to be enjoyed.
there is no added “greater safety” if you think that, then you need to read up more on what this item actually does.
It is a ransom fee… plain and simple.
1b / 24hr just so no one can go afk … which they won’t be doing anyways, they will simply log in and out 24/7, so someone has to pay a 1b isk sink per system.
At that point, they can even sell their services to not camp that system for 900m / day … and the “victims” save 100m per day.
This is just so wrong.
And there is nothing you can try to say that will make me think otherwise.
I won’t deny that strategically it’s a huge improvement but, for the purpose we’re talking here - safety from being ganked while ratting - they’re functionally matching as all they need to offer is a forcefield or equivalent + maybe storage for a single ship.
Much like now nobody is going to bother sieging a random Astra in backwater dronelands, nobody bothered sieging a random small stick in backwater dronelands.
But, for clarity - I fully acknowledge that full asset safety, repair/cap on tether, safe jumpoff/bridge point for capitals and mechanics that force the attacking group to commit to a set time of shooting the structure in order to reinforce it (something that killed ninja dread attacks on towers) are a massive boon to system safety. Whether or not this is a good or bad thing is a separate discussion in my opinion.
It has already been shown how this is not the case by myself and others but by all means waste a lot of isk if you desire I will come help you waste it if you want. 
You continue to prove why buffing the whiners won’t help the game. No matter how big of a buff you get you are still fail and will still whine.
Im discussing a topic without taking cheap shot’s at my opponents…
so yeah, i guess when you’re talking about “whiners” your talking about yourself - a cloaky camper…?
you know the true carebears of null
so… what do you mean?
you have somehow proved that the mobile observatory is not 42 million isk (in manufacture cost) and that there is somehow not 24 hrs per day? and that 42mx24 is not somehow over 1 billion isk?
Technically yes, but I think of these things:
People are more likely to use citadels because of their advantages, just like the outposts of old. The difference between citadels /outposts compared to pos is that the benefits encourage the lazier people to use them. People are less likely to use something like a POS when they can have all the services of the citadel/outpost to use. Plus the different security settings allow easier hangar use, etc.
Where this makes a difference is tactics:
—With an outpost in system, you can put a bubble between the ratter and the outpost, and they might get scared and warp straight to it to hide and get caught. Sure you say they could warp to a ping or to a POS, but playing the odds, the lazy line member probably wants to go to the outpost due to their stuff being there and the lower likelyhood they have access to even use a pos in the system or know where they all are. With unlimited citadels it is much harder to predict where they will go.
—People complain about cloaky eyes, but lately I have seen citadels anchored right off of every gate with an “AFK” pod keeping eyes. Granted they own the space, great. But now all a ratter has to do is toss a day old toon in a pod tethered off of each gate to have perfect intel of who is coming.
— As a defender you can have unlimited players with unlimited upships in a citadel to deal with any situation, jump clone to them, etc. So it is much more dangerous as an attacker many times to gauge the defense. I can’t dscan the citadel to see what is sitting inside. It could be anything.
Your complaining that the huge proposed buff to you is a “ransom fee” and wanting even more buffs, when you shouldn’t get a buff in the first place.
As I said before, the threat of being able to anchor one is enough in many cases. You don’t have to keep them anchored 24/7 because you can anchor them. If the cloaky goes AFK in a system without an observatory how are they to know that while they aren’t there you might plop one down and decloak them. If they are the “true carebears of null” like you say, they won’t take that risk, so you are good to go in most cases. So you only have to anchor one once in a while when they are around so long you feel they might really have gone AFK. Thus it won’t cost you billions like you say.
Your lack of creative thinking related to cloakies just illustrates why they get to you so much and why you are crying for even more buffs that you don’t need.
While I could argue that there’s usually the “main” citadel people warp to that serves the same purpose the Outpost once did (though spotting this one usually takes knowing the area and additional ones around the system do boost safety.), the 100% safe gate control one is a big change.
I agree in this case, yeah - Citadels are a big increase in safety over just the old stick and my view was a bit narrow when I pointed it out.
What is being said is that the Observatory works like a nuclear deterrent - the threat of one being used against a cloaky camper will force them to adopt a different gameplay strategy.
This is because a lot of cloakers (and in general - a lot of PvP minded folks) do actually balance their books on ISK expenditure vs. damage done or fun had.
If you need to remove a big advantage that is the possibility of masking your level of activity in order to fly a ship that’s not a Bomber/Prospect, the books no longer balance.
You need smart up on how the mobile observatory works, its not a buff at all. Its a “pointles” isk sink.
also please stop talking about pos vs player launched stations… in this thread.
If gaining 100% knowledge of whether a cloaky is active or not plus forcing actives to decloak and recloak constantly screwing up their gameplay isn’t a huge buff, I don’t know what is. But ok.
Yeah. what algathas read as “whine”… but, tbh. the books on PvE no longer balance, either.
nothing in eve balance anymore, its because of the “temporary” (lol) starvation period, and all the isk sinks in the game.
Yeah, I agree, the afk cloaky campers will adapt, and the adaptation is even less “active gameplay” and uncatchable botting - and even, a cloaky camper that relogs 24/7 will be applying a “negative isk” to opponents by not even having their client open… That’s is just next level fubar.
Yeah as I said, you don’t really understand this item… tl;dr. this is a false statment.
or you know, fit your ship into a smaller sig with rigs and -sig implants etc, and the enemy can’t even scan your uncloaked ship down.
I get it, you don’t hunt you krab and you only think about your side.
That’s all great and all, but as I have said before, that is not what I am talking about. If you an actual hunter and are getting into position, with this item deployed you have a certain time limit before you have to warp off, recloak and the come back and try again. Getting into position many times takes a lot longer than 15 mins, sometimes hours, but also you don’t even have the whole 15 mins. You have to leave grid to decloak and recloak so there is time to get there/get away leaving you much less. If there is a beacon, then you end up far away from your target so you can’t even bookmark where you were and come back right to it. If the enemy is part of a fleet and they are moving around then you have to start over. All the while you lose eyes on what you were doing as well.
If you are decloaked at the wrong time while positioning either A) the target will see you there near them and warp off or B) you will die. But either way you are active and this deployable is severely degrading your gameplay by making you decloak to prove you are active.
Then on to destroying the deployable. It has low HP but if your goal is to destroy a target, you won’t necessarily want to destroy the deployable as that would give away your intentions. So then you have to give up your intentions or have a much harder time positioning than before. See the krabs again get the advantage.
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