MVP Goes to...The Loot Fairy 🧚

No, they’re trying to find a way to fight it. This is why people complain, to find someone to do it for them. It’s smart, just a little bit too smart, because the complaining when done on the forum happens outside of the game while the fight needs to take place inside of the game.

@Solstice_Projekt will possibly tell you that the inside is the outside and it’s all in your head… :relaxed:

I think it gets confusing when PVP is necessarily equated to combat.
Is a hauler using cloak/mwd or a BR to sneak around the hostiles, engaged in PVP? I think they are.


When loses happen and people see they could not retaliate in any meaningfull, obvious, shown, known way, they are very vocal about that. I think its natural to cry for help to developers. This is not different to forum cries in other games with PvP, about UI, about balance, about skills.

But CCP being CCP is indifferent to that and will stay that way. Sheer complexity have even this effect that CCP devs dont know what will be effects of a certain game feature when they make it. I imagine they look at that game and tell themselves: “What kind of monster this is, I cant even… These people threatening to cut others hands, maybe we should shut it down one day and go gardening.”

Of course. PvP in a is both about offence and defence, and husbanding one’s resources in a game like Eve. It is perfectly reasonable to spend some, or maybe even most of your time (like those in Delve are) looking to gather resources that make you stronger, and not directly engage in PvP with the other side.

Again, of course. Why would you take a fight that is either stacked against you or uncertain? You should avoid those fights to the best of your ability, and seek to force others that are more certain and in your favour, or at best take it for fun just to see what happens with the expectation you likely will lose.

That’s the type of game play a persistent PvP sandbox like Eve offers and has for 15 years. If you want balanced and simple PvP where the sides are defined and equal, there are plenty of other games out there featuring advanced match-making algorithms that will scratch that itch.

But I still don’t know what this has to do with people getting upset and acting badly when they lose an imaginary space ship.

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Why would you take a fight that is either stacked against you or uncertain? You should avoid those fights to the best of your ability

You cant really make people mind that at all time, especially in high sec. But If CONCORD would be taken away? Would that satisfy everyone? Of course not.

CCP would go bankrupt trying to do that, I dont think the Serenity kind of state is OK with them. But what state is?

See that replacement devs we get now are not showing up too much in communications? They are not allowed to I think. They will completely turn this game on its head. Its a protective measure.

I understand your position on bumping, but how does it apply to the OP though in your mind? Jump freighters have a direct, hard counter to being bumped - their jump drive. Such a ship has options and game play around it to escape that perhaps some other ships don’t.

Regardless, it seems strange to call a ship with a get-out-of-PvP-free button “helpless” or that the most expensive ship (with the most EHP) that is allowed in highsec is piloted by a “baby seal”. Taking one down under the nose of CONCORD is a costly and nuanced feat, easily avoided by any attention on the part of the hauler pilot.

I don’t get what you are trying to say. CONCORD does a great job at providing a cost and deterrence to illegal aggression in highsec. CCP would be foolish to take it away, nor would anyone who understands the game ask for that.

With CONCORD at your back you have such an overwhelming advantage in highsec that in almost every situation no one would take a fight with you. The exceptions involve making yourself a valuable and/or vulnerable target, but outside that almost no ship is attacked illegally in highsec because of the extreme cost of losing your ship in seconds.

CCP explicitly built the game from the ground up so nowhere is safe, so yes, it is reasonable to make people mind that all the time even if CONCORD means they have all the cards most of the time. As the JF pilot in the OP learned, if you don’t keep that in mind, you may end up another statistic. The complete picture would show he was rather unlucky, and 999 of his fellows behaved equally negligent and didn’t get exploded, but it can happen, and the game is richer for it. That risk provides meaning to our assets, emotions over wins and losses, and reasons to play the game for industrialists to built and replace these virtual assets.

I can’t envision a game mechanic where jump freighters could have balanced fights with other ships given they are specialized for hauling, not combat. Industrial ships can only fight other industrial ships? It sounds like you are asking for hauling ships (and mining ships too I guess) to just to be straight-out immune to player attack in highsec so players don’t have to worry about the other players, which then trivializes the space dimension of the game by making hauling perfectly safe, and completely borks the economy if minerals can be gathered risk-free.

If players would just respect the Golden Rules and just fly what they can afford to loose, there would be a lot less hang-wringing on these forums.


That is why people are lured into thinking they are relatively safe.
Then players encounter a player who proves that you are not safe.

Imagine a pop-up on undock you cant dismiss, telling you that outside is dangerous. Imagine people have to click that every time they undock. :thinking:

The other way, is the null sec and low sec way. There you cant feel safe anymore so you have to take measures in protecting yourself.

Ok, I see now. Yes, I agree that the overwhelming amount of security CCP has built into highsec lulls people into a false sense of security. Most of the time, they don’t even have to consider their defence and when the odds finally catch up with them, or they get too complacent or lax, and then experience a loss, they get mad.

Seems like a no win situation for CCP. They either make things more risky and force people to be more attentive which may drive players away, or they do it this way. This way probably is better for the majority who don’t like to be constantly vigilant, but it might be a more engaging game if there was more real risk from the other players, and people might be more accepting of it.

With the pirate FOBs though, CCP appears to be trying to swing the pendulum a bit more back towards more risk in highsec to drive engagement, even if it isn’t at the hands of other players. Maybe even they have decided they have been a little too overzealous with applying the bubble-wrap to highsec.

CCP will never be satisfied by population numbers, and majority of players trying the game will not be satisfied with it. :psyccp:

I think CCP wins something tho in the process. Enough to roll this stuff even uphill for some time. :moneybag:

Just to be clear, anyone who uses a Jump freighter in hisec without an out cyno that is either logged in or can be logged in to replace the scout/webber is seriously dumb and I have little sympathy for them.

The comment about baby seal clubbing was aimed at the whole play around bumping, not specifically at JF’s.


He was on autopilot. Didnt get bumped


That is just so bad…

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I never get bumped

Why not?

I don’t fly anything that’s worth bumping

Really, it’s not that hard to play eve

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never ever change

just keep making more dumb reasons you reckon bumping is so unbalanced

like its our fault you and other dumb freighter pilots overstuff your freighters and fly into a pipe with 30 gankers active

Its not hard, just dont be dumb

This freighters multiple webbers, watched as we killed this freighter:

Why did he fly through after seeing another freighter just die? (hes retarded)

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If you listen to all those bumping tears one could assume that’s what makes the Freighter explode.

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there are not retarded posts, just retarded people.

The JFs without jump fuel also make for great kill mails.

Lulz. Sorry, not my alt. I didn’t say it was for the loot. Please try to pay attention. I compared the total loss to the net gain via loot. (I think it’s funny that you take it so seriously.) I’ve listened in on some of your fleets. Adderall FTW!!!

Someone needs to visit HR.

Didn’t you get permabanned? Loyal something or another?

I guess it’s not KM whoring if holdmybeer does it… :beer: