My answer to "why so much players dont pvp"

Communications Center General Discussion
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eve pvp types:

  1. gank: warp to -> f1 : boring
  2. blob: anchor -> f1 : boring
  3. big fleet: anchor -> f1 to alpha strike a primary : boring
  4. actual eve pvp where you need to actually move, maintain transversal and choose a targets, overheat and repair with paste, change ammo types and loot navy batteries(oh my!): and its… STILL BORING!

there is two faces of eve: “yet another boring kind of pvp online from 2003” and “actually unique space farm online”
so then player that playing space farm online wants to pvp he logoff and goes to his preferred, more engaging and cunning pvp game.
want more players go to pvp? then make eve pvp better, not a “well, its mostly about applied dps vs tank+ehp but sometimes you can do the trick!” but something at least resembling actual fleet/team fights.(yes i know that ccp is not able to do this)

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What is it you actually do that gives you a such a superior vantage point on others?

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PvP would be much better if Ram jag’s where slower and RLML didn’t auto kill any tackle just by pressing f1 and afking, more skill should be required to pvp, then people would feel better as they get better at pvp and start doing even better as it becomes fun.

But there is still a lot of skill involved, especially when it comes to using gun’s. Missiles and drone’s atm are ez mode, game mechanics that change missiles and drones to allow a player to slightly manipulate those 2 to do better or worse would improve game play a lot.

A way to improve flying skill with missiles drones could be:

Missiles: current ship velocity is added to missiles (Momentum), so if your turning you’re cutting your missile speed down and loosing range but if your flying parallel to your target you are getting the most range/speed out of your missiles, and if your missiles need to arc to hit the opponent they also loose speed while turning.

Drone’s had formation’s where they fly in different ways:

Chase: Where they sacrifice tracking for speed, and orbit their opponent making them hard to hit, but struggle to track as well and end up doing low dps. (this will make the drone tracking bonus some ship’s get actually worth something.)

Seek&Destroy: They don’t orbit they just hover and do max dps with great tracking against slow targets but they take full damage too because they are not orbiting.

Tinker: They do half dps but they try to remote repair each other when taking damage.

Could have 2 switches: (could bind these to a hotkey)
A: Swaps between chase and Seek&Destroy.
B: Turns tinker off and on.

Survivability -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Damage
(Chase + tinker on)(Chase + tinker off)(Seek&Destroy + tinker on)_(Seek&Destroy + Tinker off)

This allows the drone pilot to keep swapping formations mid fight and turn tinker on and off when the drone’s need to rep each other, this also allows the pilot being attacked by the drones to have the option of shooting the drones a little each just to force the drone pilot to go into tinker mode so the dps is lower while they rep themselves up a bit (maybe for an interceptor pilot that is holding point).

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You are forgetting a hugely important part of eve pvp, that is the form up for the fight.

As an agressor, you are stalking your prey, trying to predict where they will move next and trying to lay your trap so that you can tackle them.

As a defender, you are watching out for possible hostiles, trying to run your site (or whatever) without getting in the position where you are tackled. (Or you try to get tackled in such a position that your backup fleet can come into play without the agressors realising this.)

Once tackled your four points come into play, but at that point the fight is effectively decided and over.

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Not exactly, but it is a massive deciding factor.

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You’re forgetting number 5.

  • Literally threaten to kill the next person who comes on comms mid op and says “What are we doing?”
  • Decloak covert cyno tackle
  • Utter Klingon obscenity
  • Tackle
  • Tank - Damage - Cyno - Beer
  • Klingon battle cry
  • Magic Klingon Buttsecks occurs
  • 'Splosions
  • Much drinking and mockery in local
  • More Klingon obscenities as fuel hangar’s are checked
  • Typical Klingon squabbling using more obscenities

Klingon RP blops, best blops.

Seriously if you want to have fun, RP. We’re having a Laverne and Shirley night next week, you should come.

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People don’t pvp because it takes brain effort. That’s why most cuddle together in big alliances so they can claim they PVP while in reality they just follow orders… a little bit.

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No what makes PvP boring is when your enemy sees you in local and then docks.

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Fights are too fast. (TiDi capital fights not included)

Ships need more HP or do less dmg. Every fight is basically 2 or 3 lightning rounds and nobody wants to lose a 100M-1B ISK ship because they didn’t have even an opportunity to react or adapt (no need to drink your own urine…) to an unexpected situation.

I would be much more willing to fight with higher end ships if I wasn’t hearing my shield warning wailing after 3 seconds, then look down, already half armor. Oh struc… blue flash.

This is why. I’ll take anyone on BS to BS fit with S weapons. It will be drawn out. There will be drama. At least both of us have a chance.

More HP or less dmg. Make fights last longer than a fart in the wind.

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And then we end up shooting each other.

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I think the actual answer to ‘why most players don’t PVP’ is simply: because in general EVE is not set up to encourage PVP.

EVE has devolved to a model of PvP where in most cases it is simply someone looking for a reasonably sure kill, and avoiding anything that doesn’t look like a sure kill.

Thus, most people are set up to avoid PvP altogether. The ones who are set up to PvP, aren’t looking for someone else to PvP against, they are looking for an easy kill. (Hence the ‘Warp Core Stabs are bad!’ threads.)

Of the people who remain, who are looking for a decent fight of some sort, well, there are over 5,000 systems for them to be in, and fewer players in those systems every year.

So if it is hard to find a decent fight, questionable whether it is going to be rewarding or not, debateable whether the other person can escape or not, and not terribly interesting even when the fight is found (as people have mentioned, the fight is generally decided by the first round, and you can orbit, get your alpha off, and just wait for your weapons to finish the fight on auto in many cases) - then don’t be surprised when a lot of people ignore/avoid/rarely bother with PvP.

If you want interesting/frequent PvP in your game… then design your game to provide it. Don’t just say “hey guys here’s a sandbox we built 16 years ago and nerfed every couple years since, go to it and have fun with all the PvP you can create”.

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The problem with that although It does sound epic is that when your having your nice 1v1 3min later your still having your 1v1 but 10 of your enemies allies have now landed and your only half way through his tank.

It’s pretty rare but I remember having a 15 minute fight firetail vs slasher he was tracking disrupting my firetail and I was double med ancil fit the fight was epicly long was amazing.

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If you oversimplify everything down to just “Press F1 = boring!” then of course it’ll look like that. The OP seems like someone who has never actually taken the time to learn the nuances of EVE Online PvP.

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Yeah, if you only play as an F1 monkey or otherwise think that PvP in EVE only consists of the actual shooting then yes, you may think it is boring, but you also don’t get the game.

When the fight starts it is most often already clear what the outcome is and there is little room for just turning it around by being a super awesome pilot. The most important and interesting part of PvP in EVE is BEFORE the battle. The real PvP skill is to make your enemy commit, to make him think he has the upper hand when he does not, to control the situation as much as possible to ensure victory. In this way EVE is in my opinion more of a strategy game and that is always how I played it.

And no, please don’t make EVE into yet another boring twitch based game, I really like it the way it is.

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Interesting perspective. Actually, i wonder how many people actually are PvPers; that is, the fourth type you list. After all, when you watch the streams it is usually solo or very small gang. You know, the 4th type you listed.

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I absolutely love PvP in other games but it sucks in Eve. Too much setup, too expensive, too sporadic, too time-consuming, too…

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Cause everytime you get popped, you get the you kind of sux kind of feeling.

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Sometimes it’s like the MMA fights. You train, practice, spar, repeat endlessly honing your routine and assembling your arsenals. The preparation, planning and smacktalk.

Ding-ding…
knockout in 8 seconds.

It happens…

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So apart from flagging my post where I ask you to justify your arrogance…

What exactly do you want anyone to do if you think CCP cant do anything?

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Not everyone likes PvP, but this game is quitte unique in its genre. So if you like the genre but not the PvP you have little other options.