Why are eve player's so Risk averse

Low sec / FW space:

Hecate / jackdaw running missions with their under 2sec align time’s while combat fit that instantly warp as you get anywhere near them. 1000’s of these thing’s.

Every fw plex you enter people instantly warp out when you land even if your in a worse ship than they are.

Null sec:

Citadel tethers and lots of guys just sitting on the tether when you come into system watching you.

My complaint is with everyone, why do players hate pvp so much? I just don’t get it eve went from a PvP game a few years back to a farming game now, what do people do with all that money they make? Do they spend it all on Plex so that they can just survive and go I have 50mil left at the end of the month don’t want to waste it on pvp…I really just don’t get it.

Why is it so hard to find a fight as a solo pvper I can go for hour’s and not get a single engagement, why is being safe even a thing, pvp is fun it should be something that people actively want to find it should be a great thing when people bring pvp ship’s into your space they are bringing content but instead people just dock and avoid all combat its sad.

4 Likes

These forums are full of elite PVPers. Just ask them to pm you ingame for a ‘fair fight’ in accordance to your laws and regulations.

4 Likes

I’m not an elite pvper, I’m a noob that just wants to shoot at people and have fun, I don’t care if I win or loose I just want to fight.

3 Likes

Lowsec:
The core mechanic to hold a system and/or get it to contention, is PVE based. Stay on a timer. There’s no pvp in that. Similarly, the core mission mechanic in FW is PVE based.

Flipping systems in PVP based, but there is a huge amount of PVE that FW relies on and that also provides income for FW members.

So it’s never just a PVP focus and we always have to expect a large number of characters are just there for PVE. It’s just going to happen.

Nullsec:
There’s lots of pvp going on, but there’s no reason to engage someone who is roaming through. Just wait and they’ll leave anyway.

However, people in null are prepared to engage if you make it uncomfortable enough (that or logoff). Just stick around longer. If you roam through and leave quickly, you won’t get the fights.

However, if you do wait and then engage, expect to be blobbed.

No one likes to lose, so they’ll engage when they have the cards in their hand. The challenge is in making sure you still have some advantage too. Hit and run (but at least hang around in order to hit) is a good tactic in null if you are just roaming around.

8 Likes

Interesting I usually look around if I find nothing within about 2min I leave for the next place It could be what I’m doing wrong.

1 Like

Yeah and you don’t need to just hang around in one system. Null regions have good intel, so you can roam around, but keep covering ground. Let the locals know you are staying in the area a bit and they’ll form a response.

Then it’s down to your skill in being able to engage on your terms and separate them.

5 Likes

Ember

Are you looking for balanced PvP combat?

One-sided PvP combat is natural in EVE, fair fights are not.

EVE is a PvE game with “free-fire” combat rules, and with various costs associated with losing a fight, especially for a PvE player:

  • Time to get back to active play: pick up another ship, get back to the starting point of the PvE activity that was interrupted - say approx 20-30 minutes
  • Time to balance the time lost getting to the middle of a PvE activity (e.g. half-way into a mission or site, but before getting any return)
  • Time to earn the ISK to replace the ship
  • Time to recover the ISK value of any lost cargo

PvP ships only have ship replacement (time and ISK) to consider, and they get to choose whether they attack or not, so they can manage their risks much more easily. So the risk/reward for a “PvP combat” ISK farmer favors them compared to potential PvE-optimized targets.

The correct behavior for PvE players is avoidance, so the farmer wastes as much time finding an inattentive target as they pay for running away. Also FWIW, extortion-based piracy may have existed once (though the actual evidence is thin at best) but too many took the ransom and blew up their target anyway. There’s no honor among EVE’s thieves and parasites :slight_smile:

It might be possible to make a PvP combat game out of EVE, but it would require significant changes that the majority of existing players would hate, because (naturally enough) they’re specialists in the current game.

11 Likes

Love your reasoning Elena. It’s so refreshing.

He is right thou unfortunately eve is structured in a way that favours avoiding fight’s.

Buy mining permits of course.

2 Likes

You just have to ROAM… some days are better than others but the targets are out there.

What exactly are you using for pvp? Your 2 Tristan losses werent even fit for pvp.

Good Tristan video should help you out

1 Like

No. You can’t avoid fights. But you can avoid pointless fights - and typically best decision is to do so.

1 Like

Thank you, made me LOL so hard the dog got up and ran out of the room…

1 Like

Farm so you can farm better so you can have more alts then smug around at the scrubs before quiting

1 Like

Because earning the ISK to afford something takes time? I need 4 hours of non-excessive farming to replace a 500M T2 cruiser. I needed nearly 3 months to replace a 70B loss. EVE is not like X where you just farm in peace all day and can return to a previous save game if you made a mistake. If you are one of the people who just swipes a credit card to undo errors or to “have fun”, you are part of the problem.

This is highly debatable. PVP where you can actually do something against the attackers without dying needlessly can be fun. My guys’ camping in Delve is fun when we can kill the whales and even come out on top from occasional fights. It certainly is not fun when all things worth fighting on are camped by titans, supers, dreads and active fleets.

Taking your FW missions or null sec ratting as examples: People want to earn ISK to afford things to actually PVP with. Moreover, if you PVE you are fitted for that and have an inherent disadvantage over a PVP intruder. There is no point in fighting something that you are not equipped to fight and would just lose things for no good reasons. Afterwards you have to farm even more than before. It is logical and the better approach to just leave the farming site than to cause you even more inconvenience by staying.
Funny story here: I used to bait rather good Stratios and Pilgrim Hunters in null sec into engaging my ratting Rattlesnakes. Naturally, I had a Rapier ready to stop their movement and allow my Rattle drones and missiles to hit for very nice damage. In time, they stopped engaging my Rattles. It was rather amusing how I could keep a system save by just being present. :smile: what I want to say with this little anecdote is that even PVPers are just as risk-averse as PVErs and follow the exact same patterns that I outlined above. There is absolutely 0 distinction between the two. They are both absolutely risk-averse.

Moreover: People are mostly just interested in dunks and lols. Fights are unpredictable, dunks give you a quick accomplishment, a quick laugh and a feel good moment. That is why you get overpowered opponents most of the time.

3 Likes

Join RvB…they are only interested in fights I believe.

A fit optimised for pve is different to a fit optimised for pvp.

A jackdaw running missions in fw or anoms in null has to be fit for pve because a pvp fit would sub-optimal. But a pve fit jackdaw has little chance against a pvp purpose ship. So the correct choice in that situation is to fit for pve anyways and to just bail out if interrupted.

Also with all the nerfs to pvp in target rich environments like hi-sec, the ways for new players to get into small gang pvp are drying up fast. Low and null have always been sparsely populated.

Edit-
The best pvp you’ll get is forced pvp. Burning down someones home or industry and defending your own. You can bet your arse people turn up for that. The stakes are high, emotions run hot. That’s when you get ‘the shakes’.

Hunting takes patience, always has, in eve or reality. There are skills you can learn to become a better hunter. Just takes time.

Where abouts are you based? If it’s gallente FW i can show you a few tricks for hunting. Or if you want i love to solo in T1 frigs, I’ll spar with you.

3 Likes

Why are you posting on an alt?

1 Like

Let’s say that FW missions changed so that there was less incoming dps so that you didnt have to be pve fit to tank it but you had to point or scram/web the npc’s in order to finish the mission forcing people to enter and run them in pvp fit’s.

Would it then be more acceptable to take any pvp fight that comes in mid way?

1 Like

I’m still seeing a lot of references to PVe and PVP fit ships.

Have the new missions and rats created any need to reduce these vast differences? I know that a standard mission ship, when done per said standards, is tanked to the damage type of a given NPC faction, and equipped to deal damage against the tanks of the NPCs. So a PVe ship with passive shields against heat damage won’t take ECM so well. That’s a given. But are not say an active tank used in a mission still closer to a PVP fit of sorts?

And the PVP fit, apt to be active or buffer tank, but gimped somewhat by what we presume to be a more consistent occurrence of web, scram, and neut, would such a ship not already be at a disadvantage for having at least the scram?

Neut/vamp is quite a challenge to deal with, even from an NPC actually. But I rarely seen an NPC do that and never had a mission shipt to counter neut. Is neut one of the bigger differences still?

I ask because the perception of there being vast differences between PVe - combat missions ships generally - and PVP ships is almost as old as the game, but the game has changed considerably with an increasing scope of adversaries.

Incidentally, I used to run missions in buffer tanked BS that used web and scram. This I think was one of the reasons why I seldom got harrassed or saw a baiting attempt. But in saying I do that, here comes the “hurrr durrr you only make 40 million ISK per (insert ridiculous time unit here) instate of 41.8 million you fail at Eve!” spergs. So maybe that’s why mission ships are so vulnerable, more to the “make ISK” than survive an altercation with another player.

1 Like