Nerf Ganking Megathread

Communications Center Crime & Punishment
6198

That is nonsense. It might look like that, because the industrial players are able to cover both gankers and carebear needs and the prices at Jita are basically staying intact no matter what (at least long term - I already bought off some commodities and their price skyrocketed, but in matter of days it stabilized again), but that is because the industrial players are just able to produce so much. If no destruction occurs in highsec, then they have no reason to produce all these ships and modules that are destroyed on both sides. They will lose their job. Prices will probably stay intact even without destruction, but only because nobody will go under production cost and if there is no demand, the production will simply stop, probably with those players leaving completely.

But if we look at items that are looted or acquired by LP, if these blinged ships in highec never dies, they have no reason to buy these modules. Which will drive prices of these modules so low that suddenly escalations are pointless, lvl 4 missions are only for fun, and fw is not making any profit either. The only thing that will keep doing profit will be abyssal probably because of its gambling nature and production of junk. So eventually highec gameplay would basically shrank into hunt for perfect abyssal rolls. Which is basically how every other MMO(RPG) works. And which is why I don’t play them and I play EVE which is different and offers the thrill of being killed anywhere.

The destruction in highsec is higher than destruction in nullsec. Sure, some of the destruction is due to wardecs, but these wars are often targeted against nullsec and if we use definition of ganking to be any non-consentual pvp then I think we can include wardecs into this as well. So lets say the destruction in highsec is 50% of the destruction in nullsec.

If you say that this destruction has no impact on nullsec alliances, then that means that the destruction that happens in their regions have also 0 impact on them. Hence no destruction anywhere impacts nullsec alliances. And you might be even right, but does it matter then? Is it worth argumenting with?

6199

I didnt actually say that, but sure whatever you think.

Id say wait long enough and youll see it, but Im sure youll find some way to argue that too for no reason vOv

Its not like Goons havent been ganking since forever or nothing.

6200

Excuse me? If you have any hints, just point at them. I can just say I don’t have such knowledge. Doesn’t mean it isn’t that way. Last input I had was from a CSM member who had an interview with a streamer on Twitch and when they talked about ganking his statement was that the big blocks on leadership level don’t like it that much.
And yes I have seen Goons ganking, but not as main activity. There are some splinter groups that do more than others, but when I see them highly active it is alway like an Event, not a daily business. You may correct me on that of course.

6201

There we go.

Man, youll do anything to turn an agreement into an argumement.

Why are you unable to discuss anything without making a fight of it?

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6202

Yes, a one-sided echo chamber conversation where opposing viewpoints and any disagreement to your rhetoric is conveniently dismissed as “disingenuous trolling” and anyone who attempts to hold your talking points to accurate accountability are equally dismissed by a fallicy that “meaningful conversations” have to be void of logic and only stupid people ask for verification of source materials.

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6203

I am not making a fight of it. Maybe you are right. I am extremely interested to learn about the connections between the larger 0.0 alliances and HighSec gankers. Any info is welcome.

6204

Ok sorry if I flew off the handle

Id start by checking the New Order donars. I dunno if they still post em on the site but there used to be quite the luminaries in that list.

6205

So what you’re saying is that you think the game should be limited to one region where fresh newbs appear and be ganked instantly?

6206

You’re replying to me while quoting someone else.

6207

Yeah I have noticed, my aplogies.

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6208

Apology not accepted.

6209

I’m suprised high sec destruction exceeds null sec. However looking at the Jita Zkill I can easily believe you. It has hundreds of kills in that one system alone. If you removed all the ships killed by Concorde though it might be different. That must pad out the high sec destruction figures?

To my mind there would be high sec systems that see a lot of ganking and baiting kills. They will mostly be trade hubs, hauling choke points and mission hubs for SOE. The rest of it I would have guessed to be a lot quieter.

Conversely in nul and low sec the average system I would expect to have more kills and fewer systems with incredible numbers like Jita.

Let’s look at Osmon a SOE mission hub and popular ice mining spot a few jumps from JITA. It saw 5 kills today. Compared to H-PA in venal a less popular mission system in NPC nul. It had 9 kills.

That’s what I would expect, because if someone is hunting in nul they can keep killing, they don’t have to wait out timers and re ship if they don’t lose theirs.

I don’t know that if people were able to run PVE with impunity it would have much direct economic impact though. Ganking has a very small impact on the individual. I ran missions for a full year in HS using Marauders in SOE hubs hauling billions at a time in SOE expanded probe launchers, asteros and combat probes to Jita. In that time I lost one marauder to pvp, mostly T2 fit on a gate. Might have even saved it if I burned back to the gate and jumped instead of seiging. The point being it was a tiny blip in my profit margins. I lost more to brokers fees and sales tax than I did to Safety who ganked my marauder.

The fancier modules don’t even come from hs they come from null ratters, level 5 mission runners and faction warfare runners and they will still be lost. People muck up missions all the time and lose marauders and battleships to NPCs. Especially in abyssals. If HS people bought less then more people in low and nul would trick out their ships and lose them and the cost of modules would overall stay the same.

Ganking has an impact but it’s not a huge financial one unless you are using a targeted campaign of ganking to, for instance, drive miners out of a system. Then you are talking something that will be felt on a corp level but not so much on a global level because as soon as those miners move out then others move in.

If I had to guess on the biggest direct impact of ganking? The price of catalysts, void ammo and polarised small blasters.

No, gankings impact is more subtle than that. What would happen if high sec became completely safe? Probably lots of things that cascade out from the small changes.

Nul blocks would likely get less null bear recruits. There are lots of people in null that rat with impunity in the space of big blocs. If those people could just earn similar isk in HS without having to form for pings they probably would.

Those nul bears not being exposed to mandatory pvp would mean less content for the regular nul players and would also mean they would be at greater risk of burning out through doing nothing more than accumulating wealth with nothing to do with that wealth.

With less PVP happening in null the market for HACS, T2 logi, EOS and faction battleships would be severely impacted. Those nul bears would also not need Alts to fly dreads and so would plex less accounts in addition to having an impact on the capital hull and module markets.

This could also mean a shift in power balance in null. Alliances like Goons and Frat who are very much buoyed by their recruiting power would not have the same number of anchor on FC and press F1 players. This could destabilise large areas of space.

This is just one possible outcome, it’s impossible to completely foresee but we could guess at many more.

Following this train of thought it would be a very different game, likely with lower numbers of active players with no ganking at all.

6210

Only the other day Goons and initiative took part in ganking with safety, most of their leadership was there. Later on fraternity gank feet was out with their University, I don’t know there leadership very well but it must have been there. Back in the heyday of ganking two of the biggest names Kusion and Painter fleet were Goons

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6211

This, goons used to form fleets, fly to Jita and destroy everything in their path.

6212

Sorry is that a question or a statement, happy to elaborate if needed

Btw who ran the High sec Goddess fleets , any one?
we shouldn’t forget these times

6213

Altara it is called sandbox gatekeeping. You want to limit me to what I can do in my sandbox and you want me to haul 1m cargo and you want me to do this long list of sh*t no one wants to do. It is no longer a sandbox at that point.

This in turn kills big games and it is what is happing to Eve Online. Ganking is a form of gatekeeping which has been proven to kill games.

Is that good enough for you?

JJ

6214

I big element you a missing is that with high sec being free of ganking all the new players that could attract of the introverted generation that doesn’t like the group things as much at first.

The ganking destruction in the universe economy is literally not even a single percent, and the lack of that percent not dying won’t mean anything.

The biggest change you would see in the game is remote hub prices come down as Jita would spread out all over space and you wouldn’t have to have a centralized hub as much as haulers haul trillions a month through space.

I believe it would be very healthy for the game personally.

JJ

6215

Speaking as a hauler, why would I want prices to come down?

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6216

Cheaper pricing opens a lot of opportunities in the game. It allows wars to happen at a more negligible risk and more frequently. People venture to more dangerous areas to get higher-priced minerals, explore, or do other missions.

A cheaper high sec would only make the market manipulators cry and no one else. Everyone else could afford the ship they always wanted and do what they wanted. And for a lot, as mentioned before, it opens an opportunity for the first time that they could take the risk.

I believe you would see isk velocity go up, because everyone wouldn’t feel like they are saving up for the great depression that never comes.

JJ

6217

The only thing you’ve accomplished by accusing me of doing this is giving me a kind favor of letting me know you are, with 100% certainty, lying.