Is he still asserting that more people doing a task doesnt cause the value of that thing to drop?
Thats what made him start flaking and accusing people of trolling him earlier.
Guessing he still doesnt have an answer.
I get what you are saying here but that only really applies for some kinds of discussion. It doesn’t for instance leave room for philosophical discussion for instance.
I think the important distinction here is that this JJ charachter is making assertions about how other people enjoy the game/how the game should be played with nothing to back those claims up. Its not that the discussion can’t be had but until he does back these things up they should be taken for what they are, a half baked theory.
I’ve noticed JJ only seems to answer replies they can easily reply to with something glib and not actual well structured comments. This thread seems to pretty much be JJ rambling and the gankers winding him up because they are amused by his ramblings.
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Part of it is: I am not forum police, if people want to generally 
post, I don’t care “whose side” people are on. Just let the flow. It’s not insidious. What is insidious and malicious are actual influence missions done in subterfuge and with deception, there are (were?) Eve corps dedicated to this.
Other part may be more specific since this is a vague observation you’re levying at me. But, a good opportunity to take a risk to share my viewpoint.
If you’re asking why I don’t question “pro-gankers who troll” – let’s be honest, you’re talking about “Why doesn’t Io push back against Aiko when she trolls” – it is because the GMs of the past have made decisions that forced gankers to roleplay and behave in a certain manner or else be banned, when interacting with others.
Big fat huge disclaimer here: I don’t have full context because I’m not a ganker and have not had GM interactions. I haven’t asked out of laziness, what those rules are, because I myself don’t broach them. I originally played before James 315 roleplay was a thing, so my working knowledge of “meta game rules allowed” include things like (and these happened) “cutting the power to another players home” or “finding out where a player’s place of work is and harassing them there (or their boss)” or “try to force the creation of the CSM at CCP to destroy real life friendships”. I know with the Community Safety thread these are now not ok but I am not and do not want to be a GM / meta-rules-lawyer. So I may be completely wrong! And guess what, discussing moderation is not allowed here, so with this very post I’m now (possibly) taking a risk to mention this usually omitted fact. I won’t ask you to comment and reply and risk yourself.
Having said all that, let’s go back to the root of the point.
The trolly ganker roleplay and why I don’t question it. Folks can find these decisions distasteful, or the way it’s been expressed by gankers distasteful, or the blogs and salt mining distasteful, ok, but that’s besides the point. What is on point is: If I push against ganker trolly roleplay, that means I am pushing against things that approaches the GM rulings and I don’t like the idea of pushing of people into areas that possibly violate rules. Here on the forums or in game. That I find unsportsmanlike. It feels like trying to actually goad people into getting themselves booted from the game. That’s not cool.
Maybe that makes me hypocritical. Or biased. If you’d like to accuse me of being hypocritical, or biased, I would agree with you. So long as you support the humanity inherent in both as well. We all are both, so in my mind it’s a useless, de-fanged accusation. Water is wet, the sun shines. Gankers gank, don’t undock what you can’t afford to lose.
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I had to step away from the game for a bit and just came back and I got to say, the 4500 posts I missed in this thread just give me a warm feeling of comfort.
It’s like going back to your hometown for your 15 year reunion and finding the same diner still there, and the same movie theater still has the same carpets. I was worried maybe the plex prices and stuff had changed it, I mean even the Mittani left. But as long as @Ax_l_Thorne and @Aiko_Danuja and @Dracvlad and @Ramona_McCandless can still duke it out in hi sec ganking threads this game will always feel like home. Bless you guys
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Aw thanks 
I hear what you are saying but there is a difference between role playing and ■■■■ posting/trolling. I totally understand roleplaying. I’ve been a GM for for friends playing dungeons and dragons for more than two decades.
In general I think more voices are better than less. If the only way you can interact with the forums are by being a troll then so be it. If the only way you can interact with the forums is by posting from the false safety of an alt then that is fine too. I would rather hear your voices than not.
So this is why I ask the question about why you discredit anyone using an alt. Its not to frame you as a hypocrite or to call you in-humane it is purely to challenge it.
Bias is fine by the way, we all have inherant bias, its just part of how the brain works and recognising that you have bias puts you a hell of a lot further forwards than half the people I work with.
I hate this quote in its simplest format because I genuinely think its bad risk adverse advice. Sooner or later you need to undock something that you “can’t afford to lose” in order to up your game. Otherwise you are advocating the kind of grindy mindset that you need to farm our the isk for four or five of a thing before you can undock one. Its a good way to burn out new beans.
Yamamoto Tsunetomo, Hagakure said it best when he said: “There is something to be learned from a rainstorm. When meeting with a sudden shower, you try not to get wet and run quickly along the road. By doing such things as passing under the eaves of houses, you still get wet. When you are resolved from the beginning, you will not be perplexed, though you will still get the same soaking. This understanding extends to all things.”
Or as I first heard the quote from Forest Whittaker’s lips in “Ghost dog way of the samurai”
We should be teaching the newbeans not to try and make up for their lack of skill with expensive ships, but to undock whatever they like and do so resolved to the idea that they might lose the ship and that is ok.
Ehhh if you have two of a ship, you can afford to lose one.
Because Jesse W James has zero killboard existence at all. The point being that he has not presented us with any account or character than indicates he has ever undocked. So naturally, if all someone presents is a zero experience noob alt then people are going to question whether this person has enough experience to know what they are talking about…and whether some glorious main character even exists. Especially as Jesse W James clearly doesn’t know what he is talking about and consistently demonstrates so.
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I think we can all agree this JJ charachter is something of an outlier, an extreme case. Painting everyone who uses alt accounts with his brush would be like saying just because Aiko is a troll all gankers are trolls.
I disagree that losing ships is OK. There is a certain prevalent attitude that one ‘learns’ stuff by losing ships. That may be so, but you learn a hell of a lot more by not losing them.
The whole ‘you learn stuff by losing ships’ argument is somewhat suspect…its on par with arguing that one gets to university by failing exams.
Thanks Wes
I’m interested to understand how you feel you learn a hell of a lot more by not losing ships.
If someone is losing ships then there is an opportunity for a lesson to be learned about how they lost their ship.
If someone goes out and never loses a ship then maybe they are learning something or maybe they have been lucky and we are waiting for the other shoe to drop.
That is all besides the point anyhow. Saying it is ok to lose the ship is saying it’s nothing to be ashamed of or get upset over. It’s saying that it’s part of the game and you pick yourself up afterwards and keep going.
I’m not sure what telling new beans it’s not ok to lose ships will do beyond making them risk adverse.
The T2 Cat is still a good ship to be used in Low, the downside I had found was the range that we need to be at to maintain applying of damage.
The other day I took a 12m [Catalyst] vs 150m [Succubus]
I do have the vod if anyone wishes to see, it was very close and until he pulled range and I had also burnt my guns out long before I lost the hull. If I fitted a double web most lowsec pvp don’t warp away from 1v1 and things could had been different.
So I challenge that statement of yours and this is coming from a non pvp experienced pilot using the simular tools inwhich you question the soon to become…
Queen of Lowsec @Aiko_Danuja
Cats are fun to fight.
I like using dragoons against them, or tormentors.
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I guess just a little more training into that weapon type. Would you use beam or pulse?
For the dragoon, I actually use autocannons with barrage and dance outside the cats blaster range with that sweet sweet falloff range while neuting the ■■■■ out of it and letting the drones do all the work.
For the tormentor, if you use pulse lasers than you want to use Scrorch. If you go beam, you want to use Aurora.
The point is this. Stay outside their blaster range. If you loose range dictation, you’re dead.
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I have to agree with Altara. The goal of the game is to destroy someone else’s ship, not to lose your own ship. If you are not ashamed of losing, if you are not upset about a ship loss, then you almost certainly do not have that winner’s drive to excel and perform at a consistently high level. Real winners, champions like me, are driven by their intense dislike of losing. Nobody likes a loser.
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Being ashamed of losing and understanding that the goal of the game is to destroy the other persons ship quite simply aren’t mutually exclusive.
However being so ashamed of losing ships that you fail to take risks is how you wind up not pushing yourself and trying something new. It’s a path to the comfort zone and doing the same thing over and over.
It’s also true that what works for Aiko and Altara isn’t necessarily what works for everyone and visa versa.
Its also true that they are lying lol