LOL ! The way you attempt to argue with a straight face that both A and NOT A can be true at the same time.
This sort of constant self-contradiction ( and there are many examples from you ) is typical of zealots who latch on to anything, in the spur of the moment, that might seem to ‘support’ their zealous stance. Never mind if it totally contradicts something else they said earlier the same day. It’s when a person is more concerned about personally being ‘right’ than being factual.
What a mealy mouthed way of admitting that you actually don’t have a clue ! Pass the buck on to what CCP ‘seems’ to say…in the process admitting that there is no data to support you.
Which could be construed as you not knowing nor caring what it is. It could be a yacht, or a fluffy bunny. In fact, it is meaningless for the object in question, but it does say something about the mindset of the author.
I smell a trap… It’s not nice to goad people into doing something that will eventually hurt them indirectly. You should educate them about what constitutes a gank and what is a grieving action “I’m not saying this is a gank, and I’m not saying this is not a gank, in fact I’m not even listening”.
By the way, what’s the deal with Isanamo ? There’s more activity in an old people’s home… (I planted an alt there to see what the fuzz is about).
You just dig yourself a deeper hole. Your actual words were…
Lucas : ‘I’m not saying it’s causation.’
Lucas : ’ I’m not saying there’s no causation.’
If you are not saying there is NO causation then clearly you are saying there IS causation, which contradicts your first statement. Anyone with a brain sees the two statements as mutually exclusive.
You aren’t by any chance this guy in your spare time ?..
I’m not. I’m 100% certain that the bulk of the player drop has zero to do with ganking, and everything with changes to the game. Need citation ? How about the history of EvE Online…
I’ll go even further: the nonsense about “nerf ganking” is nothing but a distraction, and a constant flashpoint for people who are unwilling to accept a fundamental reality - if not a deliberate design choice - about this game.
But… carry on. I posted a nice video in the Caturday thread for anyone who needs some distraction from all the bickering.
P.S.: Griefing is a different matter, and one where I would not want to blur the lines of what is and what is not griefing. Clarity is key, and only CCP can ever provide it for their product. But you were not discussing griefing either, rather a hybrid of ganking and griefing that only exists in that grey zone where so many forum warriors thrive.
Okay… does that mean an end to the posts, or a new rant ?
Hilarious ! Lucas now wants to pretend he’s spent the past 237 zillion posts sitting on the fence ! Gotta love these moments when the forums produce comedy gold.
Oh I’m sure that hisec ganking affects a part of the retention. It rejects people not able to play the game, let alone evolve into a player sampling the entire (dark, unrelentless parts of the) game. This never was a game for everyone, and neither is chess. In fact it’s a niche game for players with a particular mindset. What is really going on is the “missed revenue”, of “so many people trying the game and almost all of them leave again within two weeks”. And that, as you know, points at two different objectives within the same company that are at odds with each other. Guess which one has the potential of running the game completely into the ground ?
I happen to disagree with that. There is absolutely no difference between pvp in hisec and in nullsec for that matter. Both sectors will undoubtedly harbor some oddballs with that strange mindset. The best way, in my opinion at least, to deal with ganking is to not take it as a personal affront but as a factor in a game where nowhere is safe. Can’t deal with a PvP game where one has to learn about survival in an unforgiving way ? Find another one, leave before you get the urge to post nonsense on the forums (and I don’t mean you personally). The cats here catch mice where and when they can.
Don’t give in to this preconditioned reflex of helplessness.
The worst thing a company can do is try to be niche AND try to please what seems to be the majority…and end up cheesing off both vets and noobs with a dumbed down version. The notion that noobs appreciate the game being made easier for them is simply not true. The portion of noobs who want a game made easier for them is much smaller than the portion who will object and want the game kept hard. Early lessons with Counterstrike exemplified that. Chasing the ‘I want the game easier’ crowd is a recipe for disaster. Take note, CCP.
That is simply not true, especially in highsec. Aiko’s dominion, for example, extends over a handful of systems that Safety frequent often. Sure, they go on longer trips sometimes and I’ve even seen them down at Amarr…but in general their dominion extends a few systems from Uedama, and is not even absolute in those areas. There are vast areas of Eve highsec where you see Safety once in a blue moon. In fact there are large areas where a person can mine in relative safety all day and even the other culprits like Riot and CODE seldom visit. So much for ganking being out of control !
You’d know that if you ever actually logged in or travelled extensively.
I am confident that a good game designer would or will address anything that has gotten out of control, as in griefing - which is a very different thing compared to hisec pvp referred to as ganking. It’s not the Aiko’s and the James’s and the Adrians who define hisec reality, for instance. That’s (hopefully) not what is being discussed here.
They come in many flavors. As an example, some resort to another form of soft extorsion called “rent”. Some don’t. Since sovereignty, the key part of nullsec gameplay, requires numbers, it’s only normal that alliances exist. Also for their day to day activities, like income generation, there is safety in numbers and organization. You know that, you’ve lived there. Not sure what point or connection you were trying to make.
Pretty close. If you lived nearby I’d come over and give you a box of cigars
Ouch, that is a very very different story, starting with a funny scam but ending with griefing. It also had nothing to do with pvp or ganking.
Wheat and chaff. I know it sounds tough, but I think this game deserves preservation. The game selects its players, not vice versa.
Nah, views don’t matter if they start by denying reality. It’s just a token of entitlement. I started this game when its reputation was long settled, with wardecs all over hisec, no safety settings, concordokken still a thing, and the rest of the tough aspects. Somehow I settled into a mindset of “okay, let’s see if this thing can beat me”. And the rest is, as they say, history.
That’s a fair point, but up to a point. Some of what you are stating was not because of any particular wishes of certain nullsec groups but rather emergent gameplay - unforeseen by CCP or even ignored when they were warned by the same nullsec groups that the danger existed and how it would be used. That’s what you get when 400 or so game guardians are up against thousands of bright players.
Okay, let’s bring back player bounties then. I always thought of removing them as a huge mistake (and false reasons), with the pinnacle being to first make rookies exempt of player bounties (poor kids couldn’t handle the “Wanted” sign on their pics, apparently, oh dear oh dear, just like some fortnite players can’t handle their losses eh ?).
Now that we’re on that point, perhaps it would be wiser to consider the removal of at least some of the mollycoddling and the safety lines that were introduced.
And here I had hopes of actually having a decent conversation/debate with you. Alas, we reached the apparently inevitable divide again. My view on EvE is very straightforward, and the one I embraced and loved all these years: EvE is Darwinian in nature, it’s a survival of the fittest game. One can handle it, or one can’t. I can’t handle an FPS, but I wouldn’t call the typical FPS player macho, arrogant or ignorant.
I haven’t said a word about the economy in this thread. I’ve said plenty about it when the changes were rolled out, and none of it was CCP-friendly. Don’t look for opponents on your own side of the fence, Lucas. Just saying. Take a breath, not everyone with a view differing from yours has to be your enemy. Only if you insist.
P.S. As a single account guy I can say in all honesty and transparency I never ganked in hisec, despite me joining with the apparently bad cohort of 2011
I requested earlier some info from you. You stated that it’s somewhere in this threadnaught. I’ve gone back about 1000 posts and haven’t found the links.
Could you kindly link for me the update statements for CCP that support your position that ganking is killing the game. I’m very curious to read this.
Right. It is how I experience the game. And it’s a prevalent experience among the people I play with (including those in hisec). And if I dig long and hard enough, it’s probably possible to find quotes from the original designers in that sense too. And it’s definitely my wish that the game doesn’t deteriorate into something that is less than tough, demanding and relentless (or elitist as some would have us believe).
A fuss ? Moi ? Admit it keeps you somewhat entertained. And when ccp ever dreams of touching stealth bombers in ways they don’t want to be touched, I’ll be there dropping extra ammo, LOL.
(I left out “around griefing players” in the quote because I disagree with that part)
Let’s say for instance that you are right, that that is what it turned into. The question then is "why did it turn into that type of ‘sport’. Could it be that perhaps that too is emergent gameplay caused by changes introduced to core gameplay elements by ccp ? What if those changes were reconsidered ? What if the reasons for those changes don’t hold up in hindsight ? Murphy’s law implies that when one iterates on a faulty system, the problems only get worse, right ?
So, as an example, the players who lose all they have when their cheap and ill chosen hauler gets blown up are all faking it ? Okay…
(I know you claim EvE was never a tough game. I find that claim funny. Perhaps you forgot your own start in EvE, your first bigger goals you tried to achieve. Whatever, it’s your opinion, you’re welcome to it).
Griefing is not allowed in EvE, never was. You mistake all ganking for griefing, and perhaps underestimate the level of roughness that is allowed in EvE as opposed to other games. As an other example, scamming (without exploits) is also allowed. But it may take another 4000 posts and lots of funny mushrooms before that finally starts sinking in.
