New Eden Industry Strike!

Communications Center General Discussion
433

Hahahaha.

So now, I have someone who’s all posts can be summerized by “B-but the economists?!” and “That’s not true! That’s not facts!” without ever providing any real facts or proof of his own, no matter what subject is being discussed, calling my post “contentless”.

Strangely enough, tho, I didn’t see you quote and answer the parts where I included “content”, with facts and examples.

I guess it’s easier to do your usual intellectual handjob with nice words that ultimately serve no purpose than to answer anything useful.

Which is actually the very reason why, sometimes, it may develop in a way that you think isn’t good, which justify you purposedly hurting it. Either because you want it to be less lucrative, or because you wan’t to force it to mutate into something else.

Except it can change it, and that’s what you fail to understand.

This is a video game.

Developpers and game-designers are basically gods, here.

Their points of view, preferences, intent and desire CAN change everything. It only takes a few lines of code.

Yeah.

I’ll take your “E”.

Personnally, I don’t know if I should give you an “H”, or an “I”.

Do you prefer “Hypocrisy” or “Irony”?

I also have the option of “NS”, for “Non-sense”, but we don’t traditionally use two letters for that kind of thing.

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434

To be clear, you obviously don’t have the background to delve into this subject. However, you do have the enthusiasm. This was evident with your first response, and it would be foolhardy to endeavor to engage with you in a colloquy about this subject.

You did have to get the personal digs in, and for that one must wonder what the motivation is, but I’m not really even interested in that.

Thanks.

435

Well.

If by “this subject”, you mean “economy” as a whole, I can absolutely give you that.

i’m far from being an economist.

However, the point I’m trying to make since the beginning is that you are giving way too much importance to “the economy”.

EvE online is not a Wall Street simulator. While it certainly have an economy of it’s own, and yes, I agree, this economy is an essential part of the experience, at the end of the day, this is ultimately nothing more than a gameplay element inside a video game.

Which imply that it can changes from one day to an other depending on the whim of the developpers.

So you would be absolutely right if we were talking about the economy of the United States. It can’t change because of Point of View, Preferences, Intent and Desire.

However the economy of EvE online can.

No matter how much you love economy, the developpers/playerbase desire for what the economy have to be will prevail upon any Economical law, rule or concept.

Hell, they could even wake up tomorrow and decide that there is no economy anymore and every ships are directly sold by NPC for a fixed price if they wanted to.

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436

But, then you’re into the terrain of this becoming an entirely different “game” with the name EVE on it. The idea of players creating the material used when playing, and players destroying said material, having to replace it at a particular rate is core to EVE. The mining aspect isn’t there to amuse risk averse carebears, as some self-adulating so-called PvP-ers love to scream. Mining is the first step in a supply chain which in the end winds up with T2 gear ending up on the market for sale - the means by which the players obtain the “better stuff”, or just the average stuff they use to get there.

The question has always surrounded “What makes EVE EVE?” What differentiates it from other games is a significant point. The idea of it becoming “just like all the other games” is (as you incidentally pointed out) always a possibility.

Many years ago, some of the players with better memories could say when this was, CCP brought an economist in to examine the game, and suggest changes, or methods to manage the on-going process. The problem was, as with all other games using an economy, runaway inflation. At the time it was announced that periodically economists would be brought in to adjust the game going forward - this was never done.

My point is, doing amateurish things to try to manipulate the behavior of an economy, when these things have no basis in economics (but are just some concoction guys who think they’re clever devised) will cause unexpected, and negative things to occur. History has told us this countless times.

So…not having the expertise in to make the suggestions for adjustments means it’s a ship with no skipper. There’s just an illusion of direction. You can clearly see this in the multifarious complaints cropping up that have nothing directly to do with each other, a sort of hodgepodge mix of “somethin’ ain’t right here”.

Those of us who have been involved with this game since its release are loathe to just let it go. We know we don’t have much say in what is going to happen, but we’re going to rail about it all the while hoping that it doesn’t eventually turn into another theme park, hand holding Hello Kitty!

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438

Well, that person might (self-admittedly) not have the background to delve into this subject, but I have a finance degree, Series 7 training, and work in the field, and in my professional opinion, they’re still right, and you have no clue what you’re talking about.

And also, you should address my previous post up there. I’d love to read your explanation for that one.

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444

Removed some off topic posts.

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445

so we’re approaching the end of the “strike” and… iono, nothing happened? for people who were hoarding your inventories without the intent to sell in the first place, do you guys think you did a good job?

have you shown those nasty pvpers how much it’ll hurt when you stop “doing” your “industry”?

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446

Except for the capitals I sold for 400,000,000 more than I could have a week ago.

447

Anyone striking is less competition, therefore better margins on what I produce to fund exploding spaceships.

448

They may have scheduled this GM Week in response to the strike - to placate the masses.

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449

It’s the work of the deep (caldari) state.

450

Will sir be providing his API for verification of these claims?

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451

whispers: i don’t think @Bo_Greckson knows what these words mean
and yes, selling “the capitals”, that’s definitely how conversations go

pics or it didn’t happen

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452

AKhyQTz

453

It’s rare I agree with you.

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454

She is not refuting Olson, but saying his explanation is not complete. She does not disagree with him, but is arguing to include asymmetric information. Which I alluded too when I mentioned that most players in HS won’t even know about this strike. That is asymmetric information. And The Logic of Collective Action was written in 1965 when the economics of asymmetric information was in its infancy. Arrow did some initial work in insurance markets in 1963, and the big first article was 1970 with Akerlof’s Lemons article in the QJE.

This doesn’t help. It merely changes from a minority to a possible majority and now you have discrimination. The interests being represented will be that of the coalition not those outside the coalition and by including “state policymakers” you can really easily solve the free rider problem as the state can legally use both coercion and violence against people.

Most production functions are assumed to be at least quasi-convex so that when you plop them into your neoclassical problem they become quasi-concave. That is costs increase faster than the revenues. So…again, meh…special case stuff.

  1. Pretty sure they have the information they just may not be looking at, nor are they going to tell you.

  2. The delineation between HS/non-HS is problematic. I generally play in NS. But I also have been known to go to HS. I have an couple of alts in HS. So what am I?

Second the “minority” here are the number of people who sign up for this strike. They well almost surely be a minority of players, for the very criticism you cited above (and apparently didn’t understand).

I never said he didn’t. The point went just over your head. Again, the point is his plea for a general strike is not just going to fall on deaf ears, but virtually no ears at all. They will be completely ignorant of it.

You could…you know try and adapt. Yeah, things change. That’s part of the game. When things change, you adapt to those changes.

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455

A strike is very difficult to organize in a game like Eve, the large corporations work because they are able to indoctrinate and direct their fleets. They’re pretty good at instilling identity and propaganda; they’re sophisticated. If you don’t have an organizational and command structure that can compel people to do something, Eve’s not a place where you find ‘enlightened interest in the common good’ or even enough consensus to define what that common good is.

If you wanted to have the capacity to form a strike, at minimum you’d need an alliance of manufacturers, that isn’t impossible with providing facilities with superior rigs, all the different types of research and activity in one place. Be a part of the alliance to have access to the structures, offer Orca defense blankets for lone industry miners (stop ganks).

But a call to arms on the forums, the closest it’s come is the anti-gank crowd, he had some fun and success.

456

It’s not that “indy players” are a minority.

It’s that the type of indy player who reads the OP and thinks “■■■■ YEAH I’M WITH YOU!” are generally baddies who produce an inconsequential amount of the goods hitting the market.

Whether the players are a minority or not, the scope of impact for a “strike” is a completely inconsequential minority of goods.

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457

Correct. EVE’s industry side is a game of competitive capitalism where all that matters is your own profit. Why should I forfeit my income in a strike to help you? I want you to suck and fail and leave the market, that means I get more wealth and power.

That’s not even close to the minimum. You’d need overwhelming PvP force to ruthlessly destroy anyone who refuses to comply with your strike. Kill them every time they undock, destroy all of their stations, and let their forum tears stand as a warning to others who might consider continued industry operations during the strike. Otherwise all you accomplish is removing yourself from the market and giving easy profit to everyone else.

458

I don’t think you need destruction to force compliance - I spend inordinate amounts of time freighting goods between optimized structures to increase profitability, which the time taken is actually less profitable than say killing Sleepers. An ‘industry alliance’ that afforded me access to high-end rigs without the need to travel for my manufacturing between multiple systems, and also allowed discussion / consensus on an issue such as a strike by agreement that the changes are harmful to my margins, and that not conforming would lose me access – I would likely consent to and obey such actions.

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