I’m one of those guys who people would sometimes message saying they were just making sure I wasn’t a bot. Needless to say, I’m not a fan of the changes because they remove an advantage that I had over more casual traders.
That being said, I don’t see how this will cause an economic collapse. Gun to my head predictions: (1) most of the increase in trade costs will get passed on to the consumer after a period of adjustment. (2) Traders/industrialists will spread out more. (3) More traders/industrialists will start selling more items out of upwell structures in order to minimize market costs.
Looking at it from this perspective, it does make trading more compatible with combining with an active isk generation method like missions, since not needing to update the price every few minutes or so does give you the freedom of moving your character.
The only change i am concerned with is the change to the fees when updating orders. Ive yet to try it out in game yet but it becomes an issue when people dump large amounts of an item on the market.
NOw looking for example at DCII. Looking at eve marketeer (as I am not in game at the moment) i see the following for Jita
Now the person that put up the order for 420 units was the cheapest price at some point, then (ignoring the stupid order for 1) someone dropped 3,586 units into market and another person 425.
Now the guy who put up 420 has 2 choices. drop the price to < 429,700 or wait until the orders before him are fullfilled, remember though that other people are going to be putting sell orders down even if he does update his prices.
there is no way that it is worth dropping the price, as even if he does it once, by the 2nd and 3rd times you maybe not even in profit.
What is the answer to this? how can you possibly sell your goods and i am thinking more on the small scale person here rather than people with billions/trillions of ISK already
Yeah, yeah, they’re all experts. Then why not take the account you’re dealing with to prove your credibility. Or do you want to say you never visited forums and all of a sudden the change is so serious that you found your way into the forums?
Maintaining an internal economy with business partners and stockpiling items has certainly allowed me to avoid the increased brokerage, as well as take advantage of market dumps.
Pretty much just don’t use the market until the spreads get to where you want them. Rather than take a loss wait a while and see if the market balances out or sell/buy outside of the market.
Lucky for me I have enough ships and assets I could go for years without buying or selling anything on the market if I wanted to so I will do just that until things rebalance to a better equilibrium.
One of the strengths of Eve is the width and depth of play. A player can select to do PvP, PvE, P I, trade, invention, mining, etc., etc. in any combination. I for one have found my calling to be more in trade than anything else. These changes in my opinion have essentially shut the door on my favorite part of Eve. I have read all the posts and want to add the following clarifications / observations / opinions:
I understand that most players think trade is nothing more than a “0.01 game”, but to seriously skilled traders it is MUCH MORE. I have developed several dozen trade tactics and strategies that make trade a much more interesting, challenging, fun, and rewarding game. This patch eliminates nearly every one of these techniques.
The economy may not have crashed yet, but I forecast it will take a sizable hit. There is a significant delay: Market change -> Analysis and planning -> drawing down current inventories -> completing work in progress -> changing manufacturing priorities -> assessing changes in raw material needs -> drawing down raw material inventories -> adjusting raw material supply chains -> obtaining the materials -> manufacturing new product mix -> hauling products to market. It could easily take many weeks to see the majority of the impact.
One of my objections to this huge set of changes is no reason was given for it. I feel it was just dropped on us without giving us a chance to debate it or offer better solutions to whatever CCP was trying to “fix”.
From my experiments with this, it seems that the order of the tied orders is random now. If the intent is to execute tied orders randomly for each transaction, that would be great IMO, but I don’t think that is how it works. Instead, if you happen to get unlucky and are behind someone with a huge order, you are either stuck or have to pay a huge amount to remedy. It is not yet clear how this works. Having an explanation would help.
The over-all sense I get is CCP wants to significantly decrease the time players spend on trade. One poster here even suggested that traders could use “the time saved, not having to play the .01 game to do other things”, but again some of us prefer trade. It is the activity that we most enjoy in Eve. For those of you that think trade is nothing more than .01, that is probably hard to understand.
Overall, the idea that traders should just “adapt” is somewhat valid, but when the changes are so extreme that the adaptation means giving up on our favorite part of the game, stop producing and selling certain items because they are no longer profitable, etc. that is IMO asking too much.
I, like most serious traders, currently have billions of ISK spread over hundreds of market orders, on multiple toons, in multiple markets, and many of them have suddenly been rendered impractical to execute. How will we recover our losses?
Look pal, I did the math and with the result came the question of the market updates. Now we can either be civilised about this and debate like people, or we can be a-holes. Your call
I agree we will have to adjust. I’m concerned about the long-term impact of those adjustments. Time will tell, but I believe it is healthy to try and forecast the impacts and do what we can to mitigate the risks of adverse impacts. It’s not too late for CCP to adjust some of these changes to minimize the potential damage.
Oh, have no doubt, these changes are here because industrialists and mission runners have been whining for years that they don’t want to be undercut by what they think are “bots”.
I used to be a vertical T2 producer and the main stumbling block was always getting the stuff I built actually sold as the market was in oversupply for years. It required babysitting the market orders for hours/days playing 0.01 isk wars or waiting out the people selling under build cost.
These changes appear to me like they will simply highlight further the oversupply problem with a lot more wasted ISK, orders being cancelled altogether or returned to people after 90 days. The only potential good is that it causes a lateral pressure encouraging people to sell produce locally in regional hubs. Behaviour would need to change though in that people generally don’t buy locally but fly to Jita to buy ‘cheapest’.
The market will adjust but my guess is the changes will stagnate orders a lot more and people have to get used to more wasted ISK in returned orders - it becomes even more a buyers market at the expense of producers.
