New Player Retention and Experiences with new players

I’ve run all tutorials/careers twice in the last three months - and tried to have the rookie mindset. There are no bugs in them, but some minor reasons for confusion. The one OP describes is typical: when the convo with the agent is open, and you move a mission item from a location to another, the convo window does not automatically update to show the item has been acquired or is where it should be. Another one is the famous “How do I cram a ship into my cargo bay, it’s too big” because the mission description says so and indeed “where do I mine tritanium”.
Most questions in rookie help related to tutorials/careers seem to be connected to not paying attention to details in the text, even when they are highlighted in red. In other games tutorials are often reduced to a simple “this is how you shoot” and “this is how you move”, leaving initiates with the feeling that they will figure out the rest when needed. That approach by certain new players doesn’t work here. The devs have gone out of their way already to make things easier, the mission tool is about as easy to use as can be. It becomes a question of leading the horse to the water, but if some players are reluctant to read … right ?

And, what’s the percentage of rookies who do ask questions in Rookie Help ? No one knows - the channel counter only sums up people logging into the channel. But let’s also not pretend that having questions is a reason for not liking the game. Rookie questions are not a threat to the NPE, but expectations are. Eve is hard in many ways, it requires effort and patience for as long as you play it, reading is an effort and Eve requires a lot of it. Becoming a true Eve pilot feels like achieving a master’s degree in online gaming :grinning: and all the more reason to love it or hate it.

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■■■■■■■ typical…you set it all up for your friends and it bugs out…annoying or what.

the funny part is, they fixed that bug yesterday xD

■■■■■■■ typical…they fixed it after your friends trialed the game.

flavour of the month didn’t work fast enough so on they went to another flavour :nerd_face:

maybe they’ll rotate around to EVE again in a couple of months when the flavour they’re sucking on at the moment gets boring.

sooooo many games sooooo little time :eyes:

Hi; I have followed the tutorial missions for almost a year. The improvement is remarkable, I’m sure the team that made the improvements will appreciate your input. I have done the missions more than 10 times, it may be helpful if you know of specific bugs to make your friends aware of them in advance.

I’m sensitive to your issue as I spent six years trying to get through the tutorial missions, and finally, the CEO of CCP became aware of the problem. Before retiring this was my job (troubleshooting systemic issues so I had to study it, as I loved my job). Thanks for your input, as this is one of the key elements to spreading the word about EVE and having it take root.

These people wouldn’t have stayed even if ALL the bugs would be fixed. Instead it would be much smarter to concentrate on the one guy who decided to stay. He’s the smartest one of that bunch. The others leave just because of a bug, telling me they are “small minds” who are not worth spending time with anyway.

Well for me its not really the best method of keeping the customer in restaurant really, when the first thing you serve them is a soup with a bug crouching on the plate… :bug: :nauseated_face:

You’re comparing the experience of finding a bug at a restaurant, which is disgusting, to the experience of finding a bug in a game, which isn’t. I’m not saying that bugs are good, but I’m saying that the OP should be concentrating on those who stay. Why they stay. What makes them different and why they are different.

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Yeah… well this is eve!

If you can’t stop every single time for a 5 minute player-to-player tutorial on the bugs of every single action your possibly going to take in this game…this is probably not the game for you.

However, if that is your thing and you just became a part of the community of players…

Welcome to masochism online or as I like to call it “Space debugging simulator” where your payed with getting to play in exchange for pointing out the many flaws of the game to CCP.

Imagine if you could earn PLEX for every bug you report during gameplay…

:wink:

This makes it sound like the game is riddled with bugs everywhere, affecting everyone literally every playsession. Am I misunderstanding you, or why are you unnecessarily exaggerating?

Maybe I just notice some things that a lot of players have gotten used to as being normal that when a new player gets confused as to why it happens and other players have no explanation why but saying things like “operating as intended”.

I don’t think I can be exaggerating too much. I have seen bugs in this game that took years to fix and every time they change something a new swarm of them to be found. Seriously a bit winded by the fact that they get added to the game quicker than they get fixed and despite all the fixes they have done eventually and all the new changes to the game I am seeing that it is functionally getting progressively worse for me to play every day, week, month, year to the point it is now one of my main problems with the game.

It has very little stability and in a lot of ways for me operated much better years ago than it does today and yes, I have problems every time I play but more than just bugs I find the game gets slower overtime because of more data intensive features and less options to operate without them, constant freezing, crashes, disconnections. Just another normal day of me trying to log into my accounts and play this game whether for a short or long time.

I guess I could try upgrading to more higher performance hardware but is that the real problem or am I just getting annoyed with the problems that exist in the game as it functions on it’s own now?

Maybe I am just losing patience. They have added a lot to the game and many problems otherwise had over the past year. I should be patient and wait that things will for sure work better after some more time.

I am not a new player (2 characters born in '08), but was gone for a long time, and I have been in Rookie Chat with this new character now for around a month, and the one thing I’ve come to realize with listening to the actual new players is that the tutorial missions are not really bugged.

The main problem I see is that people just don’t read the mission objectives, and they are either clueless what to do next, or how to do what it’s asking because they aren’t reading it fully.

The other main problem is that some players figure out how to do things fairly quickly and as a result do certain steps of missions their own way rather than the way Aurora is telling them. This sometimes creates the “illusion” that a mission is bugged because they think it’s stuck, or “bugged.” But what’s really happening is that the mission is waiting for it to be done the way that it asks them to do it…again it’s a reading comprehension issue.

It’s a tutorial, it doesn’t last that long (maybe 10 or 15 minutes tops), just do what it tells you to do. I tell everyone, “if you’re new just read the mission and do exactly what it tells you to do, or you’ll be here asking questions on how to do something, that’s already explained in the tutorial, every few minutes.”

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It kinda is, for example when I open the circular menu, which I use very often it sometimes doesnt open at all when I hold the button. The button is working fine, just the menu doesnt appear. Also the chat issues persisting, from time to time local isnt trustowrthy cause of that. Drones changing their targets even when not directed to do that. Game is lifing its own life, its like there is a lot of crawling under the rocks. :mosquito: :spider: :cricket: :ant::bug: :scream:

In this our conversation, as far as I’m aware, what matters for bugs is the frequency at which they are being encountered, per player. Encountering the same bug happening once a day is significantly different than encountering several, different types of bugs every day.

Welcome to economics! Bugs are prioritized based on “does it break the game?”, “does it affect many people?” and “how long does it take to fix it?”. This is the norm nowadays. I’m not saying it’s a good thing!

Considering that we’re not reading complaints about this as much as they would be there if your case was more common, maybe we should be talking about your machine, OS, setup, etc. instead?

I’ve had this before. I could narrow it down to an issue with mouse movement happening, iirc, but I have gotten so used to doing it right that it faded away eventually. I’m not saying I’m disagreeing with you, btw. Especially chat issues are a major problem in my perspective and I barely use local. I did not know about the things Drone are doing, but maybe it’s part of the game? :smiley: Rogue Drones exist for a reason! :smiley:

Well, more than those thing its actually the cause of all those inconvencies persisting. CCP, when there was a bug that allowed for every SKIN to be used on any ship, solved that very fast, in a few days. Not with the many other things unfortunately. It is directly showing what they care about most. And it isnt customer satisfaction, so they have trouble keeping customers… :no_good_woman:

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Elitist attitudes may offer a counter balance too expensive solutions; but observation without classification may offer sustainable solutions

You know what the real problem with this big old bitch is? It isn’t about exciting new players. The very nature of this game has always been a major barrier to people hopping on board. EVE is notorious for the learning curve, being up against 2003-2006 pilots will all them skill points (and ■■■■ off with the whole “sp doesn’t equal skill bro” tomfuckery, because it’s a lie, because no one of consequence wants your noob ass hanging around them), the Goons, the gankers, the scammers, the lowlife trolls who infest these forums like lice on a Liberian whore, and so on. The real real problem is getting old players to come back.

I was considering it. Seriously. Until I did my homework and figured out that the meta has settled in such a way as to sink all the things that used to give me a raging stiffy. There’s no smuggling in the form of blockade running and gateslipping and all the fun stuff. There’s no real piracy left, because everyone figured out that losec was for RP feggits like Veto and Black Rabbits and why would we do that when we can just gank in hisec and LOLOLOLOLOL. The scams are old and tired and uninteresting. The thought of going back to null and joining battles that look like paralyzed spiders clusterfucking is mind-numbing. I have literally no reason to “come home” any more.

You want to make EVE shine again? Polish the fucker with something new and sexy. I came back here expecting to find at least a little sexiness, but no, just Goons and Code. and Goons and the same. old. ■■■■.

Oh no wait. Sorry. You fuckers got skins. SKINS. A page right out of the CSGO handbook.

Have no worries as the future of EVE is in the hands of Pearl Abyss now, they will introduce the “new and sexy” features you ask for, literally. inb4 real walking in stations with jiggle physics and costumes and whatnot just to name one :wink:

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I don’t want waddling in cans. ■■■■ that ■■■■. Elite is trying the same thing with something they call Space Legs. Not interested. Just bring back some dynamic use of the game world. Caps and jump freighters are just cancer. Bigger does not equal better. Introducing planets was alright, but I think they really ■■■■■■ it up. Dust was a joke. The things they’ve tried have failed, except maybe exploration, but all paths now lead to one Rome in the long term and the pits stops along the way are full of fuckwads and old, busted tryhards.

Seriously, give me one reasonable argument for an old EVE player to come back. Why? To throw a festive skin on my ship and run and same missions or defend the same space or gank the same piles of salt the same way it was done in 2006? Come on now. It got old, and the really new stuff all gobbled nuts. Hell, might as well join Star Citizen’s endless alpha.

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