Newbie feedback : Novice Plexes not Novice at all

Hi all,

I am far from being experienced but as a complete newbie here is what I think of novice outpost… as a complete newbie.

Novice plexes are not for novices at all. They are arenas for pvp experienced players looking for pvp within the frigate size of hulls. Which is a very good thing since it allows a competition between skills, both sides having frigates.

The problem is this arena is incompatible with learning the ropes as a newbie. There is no use : you will never meet T1 frigates only firetails, worms and other faction frigates. Even if you have a brawler and a kitting ship breaches right on top of you, he will kill you.

I read a few guides like https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SV_sWWIinoheBaGZgL2nUVJGYwnsNJqJ/view and got a lot of advices from my corp but in the end it’s useless. An old timer will outspeed you, outgun you : it doesn’t matter if you are scissor, rock or paper.

Talking with my victorious opponents ( this game has a great community ! ), their main advice was and is “you should have checked the zkillboard and run”

I know a lot of people advice newbies to fly in fleets, what I do, but it’s not the same thing since you rely on your teammates to do the job for you.

What would be nice for newbies is to have their own arenas where they suffer a defeat because with their T1 frigate with AC they forgot to orbit at 7K against a T1 frigate with blasters, where they win because with their T1 kiting frigate they used range control to keep distances against a scam/kite T1 frigate. And in mirror matches they gain the upper hand by overheating while the other didn’t think about it or by having thought a more coherent fit with the same money.

My humble suggestion :

1/ keep the current “novice” plex for experienced frig players but with another name

2/ create a real “novice” plex where you can go only if your frigate and combat implants are worth less than a certain amount of isk ( let’s say a few millions).

LP doesn’t really matter : as a newbie, you quickly become an expert to rabbit plexing ( check bio of players in the local chat, if you are the only newbro camp at 29 km, align, d-scan all the time, and warp right away to a safespot if someone shows up), so ISK is not really an issue here : learning the ropes of pvp is.

Thanks for your feedbacks and thanks to all the players who gave me advices, especially the ones who blew up my ship and explained me after what I could do to be better.

Edit : removed names of T2 frigates. It was my mistake to confuse them with faction frigates.

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T2 ships cannot enter novice plexes. Faction frigates can.

For example, Republic fleet firetails are Faction ships and can enter. Wolves are T2 AFs and can not.

They cant limit a plex to a certain sp value without creating a potential safe some to flip a system. Right now people can always ship down as needed. This would cause most people to be unable to respond to your hostile actions in flipping the system.

Your best bet. Get a cloaked friend or two. Ambush said vet. Laugh at their tears as the three of you eat them alive.

I confused T2 frigates and faction frigates, my bad : i edited the post.

Cloaked friend can work as can breaching with a tackler and once the target is scrammed, tell my fleet-mates to jump with their faction frigates and skills. But it sill rely on bringing bigger, meaner friends.

@Nevyn you are right, it would unbalance flipping allowing not counter. Maybe make it with a very low impact ( like 1/10 of a present “novice” plex) or even not at all and give it another faction reward ( like taking the Plex would give 10% of the reward LP to your systems pool ).

Just to say but first impressions matter and if a newbie tries Eve Online and can’t get a feel of what is pvp between peers or equals, well it’s not the easiest first impression.

Newbies need their puppies’ fight against other puppies before growing up.

Take another very demanding games : EU4 and CK2. Newbies start by choosing a duchy in Ireland because in the map game it allows you to be a weak country fighting other weak countries. Ok you unified Ireland ( which is nothing in the grand strategy scale of things) but you did it. Years later, you have strategies to conquer the world as ( very weak in a hostile environment ) Navarre.

PS ; thanks to all who shared fits with me after reading my post. Asymmetrical gameplay ( aka David vs Goliath ) is something I find the proof of a great game but still it’s a step to learn after learning symmetrical gameplay ( David vs David ).

You learn Eve PVP through losing ships. A lot of them, especially if you solo. It’s always been like that. As Eve is a sandbox-game, there is no limiting who can fight who. It’s a very hard learning curve, but the feeling when you get through it and get your first kill is that much more sweet.

Keep fighting, keep losing ships and most importantly, keep learning from each fight. Convo the other player and ask what you could have done better. Record your fight and watch it later.

We’ve all gone through the same school.

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Yep I know. My ships are my ammo.

I agree with you, the constant danger and situational awareness are part of the game. I really enjoy having to escape asteros while flying my probe, make each jump a choice regarding the risk of gate camping, always in FW wondering if I am the prey or the hunter. As you say there is limiting and it’s great.

Maybe my suggestion has no place in FW. I still don’t have a global view of this game mechanics.

Maybe an arena or duelling training ground near Republic Military Schools would be more appropriate. The “duel” system ( but asking newbies to duel in local chat make them frightful of a scam ) exist so why not a space dedicated to it and that we could recommand in the newbie channel ?

The law of the jungle would be back right after exiting your “novice” pvp ground.

The duel allows you to destroy their ship and even pod. Not to mention you can switch ships, so you might not be fighting what you Thought you were. That’s why people don’t do it.

I wasn’t talking about FW, I was talking about Eve in general. There are no training areas in the game. When you press undock, you consent to having your ship blown up. It’s a harsh world where only those survive who can learn and adapt from their mistakes.

An old Eve-saying: " If you find yourself in a fair fight, it means that someone has already made a mistake."

You know that you can use faction frigates - yeah? The plex isnt set to new players, its set 2 certain ship types. Since you can also use them - not sure I see the problem. Think what your saying is - you want it set to experience… ? Not sure you can ever set anything for that. My 2 cents.

I think the answer would be to limit Novice plexes to not allow faction ships, just like they don’t allow T2’s.

I kind of think all levels should work that way… with maybe an additional level.

Novice = T1 frigates only.
Small = All frigates and T1 Destroyers.
Medium = All frigates and destroyers and T1 cruisers.
Large = All frigates, destroyers and cruisers and T1 BC
X-Large = all ships allowed. XL would have a BS size NPC defender.

Also… from experience when I first started doing FW…

I would run from any faction ship in novice plexes. Quite a few guys would reship into a T1 frigate once I showed I wouldn’t fight them in their Worm or Fed Comet.

Now, most of the time I’ll just fight and lose and hope to learn something… because I suck at PvP. My T1 frigate fits are pretty cheap. 20 minutes of ratting pays for 3-4.

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So why call it a “novice” plex ?

Again why call it a “novice” plex ?

I got blown up by 100m- 200m fitted frigates. I even got blown up by a Chremoas which fitted is worth 100 billions, yes billions ( https://zkillboard.com/kill/67362465/ for a example of this frigate).

Again I agree that Eve must remain a dangerous place but in the same way that lvl 1 missions doesn’t give you rats with overpowered ships, so should be “novice” plexes.

And then if exiting your “novice” plex, you get ganked, well that’s life you just forgot to make tactical bookmark, check local and use d-scan. In the same way that lvl1 mission don’t give you immunity to gate camps.

Think about new players’ retention. For lots of newbies, the first 10/20 hours of play is where you decide to stay or not. In the rookie channel when a newbie asks “where can I pvp ?” what do we answer ? That’s the relevant question.

As for me it’s okay, i will do some fleets, trading and exploration. And I will be back in a few months with relevant maxed skills and isk to solo pvp.

@Lena Crews : I totally agree with your suggestion.

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It’s called novice as it only allows T1 and faction frigates to enter, which are the first ships everyone trains.

Make 4 friends.
Train Tristan’s.
Buffer fit.
Use all types of drones.
Each fit scram/web.
Sit in Plex.
Kill everyone that warps in.
Win.

No one solo will warp on 4 frigates. Not solo - anything can happen, from couple of faction frigates, that will alpha / out dps your 4 T1 drone boats to 20+ gang of T1 frigates, doing the same and much faster.
If you want to get fight , you must look attractive to your opponent. You will have hard time getting solo fight in novice plex in worm, but almost sure will get one in maulus navy issue. Appeal is crucial, you know :wink:

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Use Recons. Good luck seeing those on scan.

Recons cannot enter novices

Even if this were done, players with more skill (both SP and RL skill) will easily dominate.

Countless EVE players learnt to PVP in FW space as it is right now… Don’t be disheartened, just get out there and learn from every engagement.

EVE is one of the few games where the mechanics are exactly the same in PVP and PVE. I am a little confused with what you mean by learning the ropes. I am assuming you want to learn a skill set that will allow you to be comfortable in a ship to the point of being able to take fights and having a chance of winning them. So the best way to learn this without losing all your ships is to engage in PVE content but do it with the mindset of taking on players in PVP. Instead of just whooping the NPCs asses, use them to practice the skills you need. Practice establishing an orbit, practice traversal matching, practice operating your tank with a high efficiency. These are essential skills that will lead to victory. Once you have these sorted, and how all of the numbers relate to being able to impose your will on the enemy; take them, and commit yourself to losing 20 combat frigates in good fights. When you are getting these fights get used to your Dscanner use it to get as much information as you can before you take fights, then even if they look bad take them. Learn from the loss, what are they doing that you are not what does there ship do that yours cant, what was the xfactor that lost you the fight and let them win it. Now buy 20 more of the same ship. This next 20 is for implementing your Dscanner to decide if these are fights you want to take. Do you want to fight a work in a merlin? Does the Tristan in that plex look like a juicy target. Now once you have lost those 20 frigates so 40 in total you will have killed someone and you will have picked up a mindset that will not only allow you to win at PvP but will lead to greater success in all space activities in New Eden.

If I can make a suggestion, write it all down. Make sure you learn something then make sure you figure out how to implement that learning. The best solo pilots in this game have all lost more ships then they can count, but they all know why they lost them, and how not to lose them next time.

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OP, what you want sounds like RvB. They give you ships and fittings totaling less than 1m isk, for free. And no podding allowed to the other team (3rd party podding is ok) Definitely novice pvp.

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