NFT's are Fundamentally a MLM-Type Scam Designed to Get You to Buy Crypto

Communications Center Out Of Pod Experience
1201

Yes, I’ve read about this guy. It’s unfortunate.

Whatever, people have been trading stocks and investing since god knows when. Market analysts have been earning money since god knows when. The BTC value is directly linked to what happens in the real world. If everyone demands privacy then lots of BTC will be brought and sold since BTC is great at providing privacy. This is just the logical progression of an idea not luck.

Obviously the people who rigidly mined and purchased BTC before the price boom knew something we did not. They were able to see it’s potential long before other people did, they saw it’s possible applications long before others. I read stories of wives laughing at their husbands for mining BTC when it was only worth a few dollars little did they know they would be millionaires one day.

I experienced similar my self LOL, my mrs was like, “why the hell you need so many graphics cards!!!” I’m like “I use them to generate money £££ per month in fact” after explaining this another 19 times the mrs remained angry until I sat her down and she watched me exchange some BTC and have £500 GBP paid directly into my bank account she was like “Okayyyy” and smiled and said nothing more. Now she wants in and we will be using both our money to buy GPU’s at a faster rate.

Also, we can look at other industries to confirm a few things. Property developers do research and invest millions in land where they build residential or commercial buildings, they understand the demand for it and put up large sums of money where they only see the return after many years and become richer. This isn’t much to do with luck it’s more to do with smart business and having a solid understanding of their market.

1202

Whatever.

When all your argument is “you are in the minority”, you know you are wrong.

is a synonym of wrong

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1203

Even if such thing happens, its only few, because many people have to become poor for one to become rich. When the buy orders get filled faster than new come, the price drops immediately and you cant sell then because loss. You cant win against math.

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1204

Well this “BTC is a scam” idea that many of you have isn’t accurate if you check what’s going on, there really isn’t any need to argue. I will say though that I am shocked that some people seem to have an unhealthy defiant way about them.

Your minds are made up and I think my assessment was right earlier, there is no factual info in the entire universe that will convince you BTC is real and not a scam.

I’m unsure how this is possible in 2022 since info is at our finger tips and it is possible to research subjects and find factual answers using the internet.

So go ahead and think it’s a scam, no intelligent person will ever follow you, they will just examine facts/info themselves and come to the right conclusion based on the facts they find and end up investing or mining.

The value is starting to rise again it’s currently £33,450.00 :slight_smile: BTC has changed my life and i can see a bright future for myself and my family. This is something nobody can troll simply because it’s true. feel free to try though.

1205

Here’s Karak answering you, lol;

I’m just helping you two guys learn about bitcoin, by proxy. :wink: You’re welcome.

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1206

Again with the insulting everyone that isn’t on your Bitcoin side, and look at how Karak_Terel always has to contradict or correct you. I understand you are into Bitcoin but you make a lot of people distance themselves from it with your attitude. Also you ignore the fact that “Blocks of power” unironically not crypto but groups of people who have power… will always want to control the system. currency will never be ‘of the peopel’. Yes, you make money, a little for a lot of effort. But somehow you like to work better from home than for a boss (well, a boss you can see not some anonymous guy who makes you work hard for little to no money)…

The thing is , it’s not regulated. The more it gets regulated the less interesting it is. Then it all hangs together with what it can do that other things can’t.

  • Being able to send money to criminals isn’t a thing the mainstream user needs.
  • Being able to have currency fluctuate because a pandemic or large scale conflict is more acceptable than “Oh, my purchasing power dropped 30% because of Elon Musks funny tweet”.

And yes, you can keep flip flopping between “It’s a high risk investment.” and “It’s the future of currency”.
I don’t check my euros daily to see if I need to convert them to Canadian dollars or South African Rand, that’s not how average people deal with money.

1207

No, in your “math” you make the false assumption that the asset traded always has the same value. In that case, yes a lot of people would have to become poor for some to get rich. But if the asset value increases and it’s not just a speculation bubble then that is no longer the case.

Not everything is a scam, some things actually increase in value.

Also, just pretending everything is a scam is not more intelligent than constantly falling for scams. It just shows a lack of capability to figure out what’s a genuine attempt to create something useful and what isn’t. It just makes you look dumb, especially if you don’t even give a reason why it’s a scam.

I’m not sure if it was in this thread or another, but I pointed out earlier already that Bitcoin doesn’t fix financial equality. But it can at least help getting rid of some of the mechanisms like the cantiliion effect related to money printing that make financial equality provably worse in the fiat system.

1208

Not yet

Ask someone form Venezuela :slight_smile:

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1209

I guess so, that doesn’t matter. Crime happens every day, I don’t have any bitcoins so I’m not the victim.

1210

True, it will not solve the current issue, but from what I see, it’s making the situation worse (at least with the current investors). That’s why I’m firmly opposed against it. If you hope it will become better, by all means go for it, it’s a noble strife.

Touché! :wink: Awesome reply. But once it comes to that situation, working hard and helping to grow the economy will be a better solution in my opinion.

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1211

Well, the only way it makes it worse is because you could have bought it cheap in the past (or in my opinion today) and it increases in the value in the future. The people who took this risk got unproportionally rich compared to others.

I don’t think it was a problem in the past, because almost no of the people who bought it at $1 held it. They all sold it when it 20x and thought they where the best investors in the world. Because it is a high risk investment, and no mater how convinced I am that it will succeed, there is always the chance it will fail and I lose it all.

Obviously the more history we have and the longer it didn’t fail the more confident we all become in it and the less risky it becomes. And currently we are in a very strange position in my opinion. It’s still risky, but we also have over a decade in which it did not fail and it starts to look like it’s actually going to succeed. I’m talking about probabilities here. So my concern is mainly about the people like Sailor and Musk, who seem now convinced that it will succeed and buy large junks of it with the intention to not sell. If Bitcoin succeeds, they will have insane amounts of wealth because if this and yes, that is concerning to me.

On the other hand, speculators are not really a concern, because they always sell. They make a profit from the trade as they would with every other asset. But they are not holding forever.

So yeah I see that problem as well, but I see it as a lesser evil than the problems with the fiat currency. I’m absolutely convinced that the creation of money out of thin air the EZB and FED are doing is worse for inequality. It’s effectively theft of value from the people who already hold the currency. It takes economic energy away from the people and redistributes it to a few, and because it takes a long time until the monetary expansion is reflected as inflation in the system, if at all, it’s even worse than just an arithmetic redistribution, because they can use the money as if it had still the same value it had before they inflated the supply by printing it.

Yeah but if you have no money to save that hard work in it will just erode away. The markets only work if the medium of exchange can reflect the work I put into. If I produce a bread and sell it for money, and tomorrow the money I got was worth only half a bread, why should I sell it in the first place. At that point I rather barter or I look for another currency to use that is more stable.

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1212

Credible poll source please, or you are just making things up.

– Gadget also sees the wordplay…

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1213

I’m unsure if I agree, or it might be a little to early to tell since El Salvador is the experiment and it has only been a short time, a few months in fact.

Speaking purely from my perspective as someone who has spent much of my life on a low income, I believe BTC does have the potential to help towards resolving financial equality simply because one can turn on a computer and generate it.

I recognise that there will always be lower value crypto coins some good some bad, The good ones will be mined and the miners will most likely be paid in BTC in exchange for their processing power. This way of doing business is solid and has earned me money for a long time now.

Aedaxus will say that I’m not earning much even though i have stated it is a decent amount, infact i have not stated exactly how much i earn from mining so I am puzzled as to how he arrived at this conclusion since he is not a miner himself and seems to ignore a lot anyway.

BTC is the closest we will ever get to financial equality as it is a great system for generating wealth through electricity. I was poor, I used used Klarna “pay in 3 payments in 60 days” to purchase my first set of GPU’s, now I have lots and lots of GPU’s all generating approx £0.80 per day.

Trust me, I am really not that smart if I can do this I am very positive about other people doing this and working their way out of poverty exactly like I have done.

I’ve had 6ft5ft tall baliffs visit me and threaten me, I’ve had court judgements, I’ve been unable to afford food, I’ve almost been evicted and made homeless. All of these things are now gone thanks to the moves I made with Nicehash and my GPU’s. So I will strongly disagree that crypto can’t help towards fixing financial equality.

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1214

No poll source is needed, it is childs play to understand factually how much money has been invested, it is public knowledge how many BTC wallets there are and the value of them. How someone arrives at the conclusion BTC is a scam is beyond me.

But listen I’m not really bothered to respond much to you if you have an opinion and you’re not bothered to research it a bit.

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1215

Bitcoin mining is basically a auction of money, because you have to invest energy to get Bitcoin. In an efficient market your would pay close to 1 BTC in energy, hardware cost and labor to get 1 BTC.

The fact that you can still make a living mining, with GPUs of all things, means that at the moment there is still an insane amount of potential to optimize.

Also correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t nicehash a software that dynamically switches between coins to mine to optimize profit? That would explain why you can still mine with GPU, because there are cryptos out there that are deliberately ASIC resistant, so you are probably mining those and just get payouts from the pool in BTC.

But just to be clear, you don’t create that money out of thin air. You put energy, hardware and labor into it. It’s awesome that you can make a profit from it, but it’s just a business like others, and if everyone would do it the margin for profit would just melt away.

So no, I think this is not a reason Bitcoin or crypto at large can help with inequality.

EDIT:
I forgot about something that actually favors your viewpoint. Because Bitcoin or crypto in general is global and without boundaries it actually can alleviate the inequality between different countries. Because everyone is basically competing on a global stage and using their labor and energy to get the same rewards.

So I partially agree, but for different reasons :slight_smile:

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1216

But it’s true, there is Trillions worth of fiat money invested in BTC, no intelligent person who has thoroughly analysed the crypto market will agree.

A trillion is 1000 sets of a billion, and a billion is 1000 sets of a million, the values we are talking about are more than some countries GDP, Yet so many of you never use this fact to revise your opinion.

1217

True, If we look at when BTC was £4k in value many miners didn’t turn on their miners because the electric cost was higher than what could be mined. Many hardcore miners still turned on their miners and ran at a loss. This turned out great for them now that BTC is the price it is.

So some mining operations might be running at a loss after bills are paid. They will keep the BTC they don’t sell and it will multiply in value when the value goes up.

Yes, depending on what plugins one has installed on the nicehash software. I only have the Gminer and NBminer installed as they are the most stable so I don’t switch often and a few of my rigs will stay on Gminer for weeks on end.

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1218

This is incorrect, due to most crypto’s being finite what happens is that when people buy and sell a crypto coin often, the value increases. So, lets say everyone on the planet brought BTC right now and all crypto exchanges sold out, the value of BTC would suddenly go sky high which will make the people hoarding BTC sell. If BTC is scarce the value goes high.

We saw exactly this happen when Elon Musk stupidly tweeted BTC would be accepted for Tesla cars. It’s a shame that such an intelligent person would do something so stupid and then change their mind. It really annoyed me to be honest.

All we need now is for the UK or USA to say “Pay your taxes with BTC” then BTC will be worth £500k each on the very same day. EVERYONE in both countries would rush to set up mining and exchanges would sell out of BTC within hours of the announcement.

Since there is only close to 19m BTC in existence it’s current value wouldn’t be enough to support UK or USA tax payments, this is why the value would increase because it will need to match the volume of people using it for whatever purpose.

1219

Yeah but those are two different things.

The value is depending on supply and demand. The supply of new Bitcoin is every decreasing because of the halving, meanwhile the demand is increasing because confidence in Bitcoin as a store of value is increasing.

But the supply is independent of how many miners there are. Currently there are 6 BTC newly created with every block roughly every 10min. That is split among all miners. If you are the only one mining you would get the full 6 BTC and would not need to invest any significant amount of energy. But the more miners join the more it gets split up and the more the difficulty increases. Hence the amount the margin for mining will fall.

Obviously as long as the demand increases and the value goes up, this will be kinda hidden because the return in $ might even increase for you, even if the margins measured in BTC drop for every miner in the business because of more competition.

In other words: Just because someone can make an nice income backing bread, that doesn’t mean everyone can do it. At some point the market will be over saturated. A free market will regulate this automatically with supply and demand.

Maybe we are just talking about different things here.

I honestly believe that was a publicity stunt to get more tax credits for being “green”. Hes a clever guy, I think at this point he gets Bitcoin.

I don’t get the reasoning behind this. You can mine BTC today and exchange it for dollars to pay taxes. It will not increase the demand. It may increase the legitimacy of Bitcoin though and that may or may not have an effect on the demand.

Yeah but if they can still pay it in dollars then there would be no need to use Bitcoin and hence no increased demand.

In the country I live we have a Kanton where you can pay your taxes in Bitcoin and soon the city of Lugano will also make that possible. But rarely is someone even using that. It’s more like a gimmick at the moment.

I think you are completely neglecting the opportunity costs for mining. I don’t mine and I’m 99% sure if I would invest time and money to setup and maintain a miner I would lose money compared to other things I could put my time and money in that yields more profits. And it’s not because I don’t have the know how, I’m a Linux systems engineer, and I’m familiar enough with Bitcoin that I could easily setup my own mining operation.

Maybe if gas prices continue to increase and the land lord doesn’t switch the heating to something else (which he wont) I will probably dust off my calculator and start to crunch the numbers at what point it will be profitable to get some old ant miners and burn electricity to heat my flat. Lol.

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1220

Tell me exactly what you would do if your country announced BTC would be accepted to pay taxes? Keeping in mind you can turn on a computer with GPU’s and get paid BTC/Satoshis via nicehash. Would you rush to set up a nicehash mining rig?

Ah, you’re already ahead in the convo, OMG, DUUUUUUUUUUDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEEE!!! get a nicehash rig set up and handle your business bro!!!

You got a goldmine right there!! All of your taxes could be paid and the only work you’d do is to turn on and maintain a mining rig.