Well it’s hard to not get at least a bit euphoric when it pumps like it did the last days. I bet you don’t know that feeling, those boomer governance tokens barely move.
Well you know, if it isn’t at the ATH, then it’s below the ATH. That’s just how it is. Pretty sure we go down lower again soon.
That’s because it’s current value is measured in fiat, how else would you expect it’s value to be measured?
The more you use the word “Ponzi” the clearer it becomes that you don’t understand what a ponzi scheme actually is. If you think that everyone out there storing gold and selling gold back securities (or any other store of value asset for that matter) are participating in Ponzi schemes you ought to write the SEC and let them know.
No that is how prices are derived. An offer to a demand is nothing more than a bid. Supply * Demand is the actual value, note this inherently excludes fraud since fraud doesn’t supply demand thereby being zero or logically 0 * Demand = 0 value. Speculation does not mean the thing being speculated upon has no value, there is also economic value to speculation itself since it tends to normalize prices. You can actually see how this works in game by following how station traders speculating on the prices of items in the market narrows the Donchian channel. Speculation has a similar effect IRL.
First prices are not equal to the value of USD, prices can change independently of changes or stability of USD, in fact having a stable currency can also cause price instability. Second even the Fed itself has stated that inflation is not their mandate. The Fed’s Policy is not their mandate, they did not create their own mandate it was created for them by the Federal Reserve Act. Their mandate is to achieve a balance between stable prices and employment which by the way even if you accepted that prices are equivalent to inflation would still make you wrong since those goals are generally understood to be in opposition. This is why a 2% target for inflation is used it strikes a balance between those two stated goals.
You don’t understand what the Fed actually does, strong currency can also cause negative economic effects that is why they explicitly do not protect the value of the USD and instead consistently devalue it. Central Banks world wide also tend to devalue their currency much more, basically as fast as they can without causing hyper-inflation. Even the most stable currencies like the USD and British Pound are devalued when it is expedient to do so. The fact you do not understand this explains why you don’t understand the value in an asset not tied to central bank inflation.
whatever
You are moving the goalpost. Your original sentence did not mention selling securities. I literally answered that in the case where the company only stores gold (and therefore does not sell securities) and you tell me to invest for benefits, then the investment is a ponzi.
If you talk about another case, then we need another discussion. Because I did not mention the new case your are presenting.
You are right to correct me, it is the definition of market price and not market value.
But the price being only driven by speculation means the thing has no value.
Yes it literally is. In the context of the mandates of central banks, that is the same thing. If you mean the exchange rate, then it is not the topic.
Yet it’s literally stated on the previous link that they are given a 2% inflation goal. I gave you my source, it’s the FED. I now wait for yours.
What ?
Now you are talking about currency exchanges. Indeed it’s not the mandate of the central banks, though it has an impact on inflation (stronger currency means less inflation)
This was not the meaning of the original claim, which is sourced here:
When exactly ?
It’s actually incredible, somehow conversion rates between different currencies are like a completely new concept to this people.
This is not moving the goalpost. The “backing” of gold backed securities is from the gold sitting in a vault, according to you producing no value yet consuming it via its maintenance. A “Ponzi” by your description.
No it does not, value is subjective so long as people demand something it has value. I have also pointed out that certain crypto like Bitcoin has value other than speculative since it is used as a medium of exchange.
No it isn’t, as I explained in the paragraph you pulled that from. You are aware that there is a difference between monetary inflation and price inflation?
Your source literally contradicts you, as I previously pointed out, it said the feds mandate is to ensure employment and stable prices. That the 2% target (which the fed came up with in 2012, 100 years after its creation) is in service of that mandate, the 2% target is a means to an end. The significance is that the fed has decided to erode the value of the dollar by at least 2% every year, not maintain the value; further it means that the fed will change this if they decide it is the best solution to fulfill their actual mandate.
No I am not talking about currency exchanges, I am talking about the phenomena where strong currencies tend to reduce investment as a result of monetary supply shortages, leading to shortages of production. Production shortages mean low supply and therefore price increases. This is why the Fed keeps adding money to the economy, it is also why private institutions create their own currency in the form of unbacked debt on their ledgers to service investments.
British Pound 1949 and 1967
USD 1933 removal of gold standard followed by revaluation in 1935 it went from ~$20 to ~$35
1971 end of Bretton Woods, though to be fair the Fed had been debasing the dollar the entire time by issuing currency that wasn’t actually backed like it was supposed to be. Inflation had even hit as high about 20% per year as a result. From 1971 Fed has been inflating money supply since it was completely free to do so since the USD became pure fiat, only settling on just 2% in 2012.
Not at all.
If Bitcoin is just a ledger keeping and calculating transactions in the most inefficient way and people that need it can set up nodes like people can set up a Minecraft server, it should not be measured. But good for you to ask those deep questions pointing out that unmitigated greed is the prime factor in BTC.
Ad hominems, are you again out of responses to any facts? Then post a little later “no one can proof us wrong!” but we do it the entire time. Saved for later to show how your replies will change whenever pressured into a corner and being exposed.
I told you the price would rise and you are apparently now required to defend the promoting of the focus on the price rise of Bitcoin. You old post are still there, exposing your nonsense.
And yes, ad hominem’s again while anyone can scroll up and see how you say the value isn’t important, it’s all about the privacy of transaction yet somehow BTC technology changed the last months right? lol.
Here you claim that the following is a lie.
“Article 127(1) and Article 282(2) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, the primary objective of the ESCB shall be to maintain price stability.”
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:12016E127
For you the “Treaty on the Functioning of the European UnionTreaty” does not exist? Well, then you can claim anything, you can even claim BTC cures all cancers. As long as you don’t need proof, I guess you are just a new comedian joining the ranks of Aaron and Karak Terell.
At least now I know who you were talking to… 
Rofl, you clowns.
Here is what your central bank says it does… OMG It is the same, what are the chances?! OMG! All these EBIL GUBERNMENT WEBSITES are lying! Only Karak, Aaron and Aeryn Maricadle know the truth! They better stay pseudonymous or they will be killed by ebil gubernments like Satoshi!!! OMG!!!
https://www.snb.ch/en/iabout/snb/id/snb_tasks
It’s not just a ledger, you’d know that if you were bothered to read about it properly.
This is immature, it gives me an insight into how you think.
Not for the people who use BTC for say £50 transactions, they just buy £50 worth of BTC, send it to retailer and then receive their item. Then they don’t have much to do with bitcoin until they need to do another transaction. I must be stupid because I can’t see where greed comes into it using this valid perspective, it is 100% fact people use BTC in this way. feel free to pretend otherwise.
Can’t wait for the day when you finally expose me, any day now.
Are you seriously butthurt because I mentioned the price?
No one questions that they write the words you cited into some very official documents. The question is, do you believe they are actually doing what is written there? Do you consider the loss of 40% purchasing power over 26 years price stability?
Because that is not accidental, that is right on track for the “planed” 2% annual inflation.
Yo Acktschuali! The inflation of the Swiss Frank over the last 26 years was only 10%. Looks like the SNB is doing a better job at keeping prices stable. Incidentally we enjoy a far higher standard of living. Maybe it’s not correlated… but I feel like leeching 30% less money out of the pockets of the working class isn’t negligible.
Exactly, it’s fine and dandy having laws and policies in place, however if we analyse the actions taken place over the years we can see a very different result to the one that was proposed.
Also, once we do see the different result what exactly do we do about it? I think the creators of bitcoin understood there needed to be balance.
Your own source contradicts you. The very first line of that document says price stability, not currency stability. There is a difference despite your lack of comprehension.
This is going nowhere, so I’m going to close with this. Bitcoin does not lack value because you say it does, nor does it have value because I say it does. It has value because there are people who demand it. So long as it has qualities which people demand that cannot be satisfied by another currency it will likely remain. Those qualities are security as it has yet to be demonstrated that it can be counterfeited, and that it is not subject to the devaluation of central bankers. Again, whether you believe a 2% annual loss to be “stable” or that central banks will absolutely never ever engage in greater devaluations of their currency is irrelevant. The relevant part is whether there are those who demand security from those concerns.
So bitcoin is actually “just” a ledger. It has so far shown to be a secure encrypted ledger. This is not a problem, ledger money has existed for hundreds of years indeed in some applications for thousands. It is today the dominant form of currency, when institutions conduct transactions they do not actually move around physical assets they just keep notes in an account. Indeed that is what your bank account is.
Bitcoin does have a problem in that it is inefficient to conduct transactions with and does require a solution to that problem as I previously discussed in this thread with Karrak, who pointed out that this solution does already exist in the form of 2nd layer crypto. I still think some regulation and centralization will be necessary before it can be fully trusted, I don’t actually trust that Bitcoin will remain “unhacked” and it will require some sort of institution(s) to safeguard the integrity of the blockchain in much the same way as banks today safeguard their balance sheets.
Thanks guys I see what you are saying now. It’s the most sophisticated ledger the world has ever seen.
It has qualities that common double entry ledgers don’t have, like the independant cryptographic verifiability, and the immutability of entries, once they have been burried under enough blocks/work.
A normal double entry ledger can easily be forged and it takes a lot of work to unearth that forgery.
Bitcoin ledger entries on the other hand are extremely easy to verify, and it’s simultaniously done all aroumd the world, on every node independently. It is possibly the most audited ledger in existance and the most accurate record keeping device of immutable financial transaction history.
But I would personally say that it is more than just a ledger. It’s at the same time also a financial network. The most secure, autonomous and global settlement network we currently have. That security and its independance and neutrality is what makes it so valuable and a game changer.
Their power to do that is print money or reduce the amount of money.
Please elaborate on how the ECB forces companies to set their price without doing the aformentioned thing…
You just read one line, then jump to a conclusion without understanding the system. Yes, you are welcome to join the discussion, yes you are free to say it’s fatiguing but no, sorry. The ECB does manage the price of the euro to keep purchacing power within reasonable limits.
The euro is used by consumers and producers(of goods and services) to trade their goods.
The rest of your paragraph is funny, is it AI generated? Either way, it’s not relevant and is used to hide you are wrong in saying the ECB does not (indirectly) influence the economy by controlling the amount of money in circulation. Everyone knows this, yet crypto enthousiasts apparently want to keep this simple fact hidden. lol.
Or maybe I understand it better than you…
The Quantity theory of money
Money * Velocity = Products Sold * Prices
This means that unlike what you and the other guy think Money is not the same as price they are in fact on opposite sides of the equation. For an institution to keep prices stable by means of altering the money supply they fundamentally cannot keep the value of the money constant unless the velocity or products sold remain constant (they don’t).
This is why I can look at the first line of that document and understand that controlling prices means they will not keep the value of the money constant and will manipulate it. Their only other option to maintain stable prices would be to attempt to control velocity or production via rationing or protectionism which generally terrible and outside the scope of central banks.
No, you just copy and past the theory.
You don’t understand that the ECB cannot just barge into any business and demand to change their prices. ECB changes rates and HOPE the changes will go the way they plan/hope. Because in the end it’s the economy itself that makes people able to make money, enterprises to make profit and prices reasonable.
So the best solution for the equation you show is… BTC ?lol.
So taking away the power of governments (elected by the people) to govern and give in into the hands of the aristocrats? And then, when it goes bad for the people you’ll advise them to eat cake? Wow.
No matter hwo you spin it, the ECB tries to prevent the economical system to crash. Remember the Financial crisis of 33 - Wikipedia ? Bitcoin solved it! With Lightning and two NFT’s…
It’s so funny you guys get all riles up with financial crises and promote BTC. It’s like the guy who says “I smoke weed because it heals everyone from cancer.” And yes, I cannot proof it does not as it would take a lot of science and then peer reviews, but even without that, I know his statement is false."
I love how your own analogy accurately reflects your own willful ignorance.
We are still talking about money right? Because the ECB is not elected by the people. In fact they pride themselves of their political Independence
Those are the people currently in power.
Bitcoin is not seeking to replace who is in power. It is a system that works without anyone in power, it is a system without administrator access.
No they try to prevent their currency from crashing at a very high cost to the economy. Big difference.
And essentially they are just repeating what the Fed is doing. A hand full of unellected rich old farts, who discuss behind closed doors how much they will squeeze all the other fiat-victims they have trapped in the dept bubble they created over the last decades. It’s a ridiculous clown show.
You can ask literally any economist what’s pure poison for the economy and the markets, and they will tell you “uncertainty”. And what do you think this backroom decisions are?
Yeah, fingers crossed, let’s all pray for the Euro. 